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New Metallica...

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6K views 50 replies 21 participants last post by  Lord of All Fevers 
#1 ·
I actually really like the music. And James's voice sounds better than it has in years.

But the production. Ugh! Did you guys see those wave forms on ss.org? :eek: Apparently the mastering engineer had his name taken off the final product.
 
#3 ·
Well, the wave form is just the visual representation of what's going on audio-wise. It shows the natural peaks and valleys of a sound. Obviously, there should be some differentiation there, which represents volume differences. Dynamics.



This is a nice wave. Notice the ups and downs? It "breathes."

The waves on the new Metallica album don't do this. They are a solid bar.



What happens as you do this, is the wave will get louder. In fact, the less dynamics (breathing, or ups and downs) in the wave, the closer to max loudness it gets. Problem is, there is only so loud you can make a basic waveform. (Comparatively. We always have a volume control on our audio equipment.) Once you have a solid bar, that's it. No more dynamics. Everything is as loud as everything else. That's basically compression, and in this case, taken to the max.

But Metallica went a bit further. They pushed the envelope so far, that they actually went past where you can. But just like those old amps pushed to their limits, they, and this album, begin to distort. What we term 'clipping.' If you listen to DM on a good stereo, especially headphones, not only does the total lack of dynamics show up, but you can actually hear certain loud sounds inducing this clipping - like Lars's snare hits, or the palm mutes of the guitars.
 
#4 ·
They were on Jools Holland last night playing one of the new songs. I can't remember the name of it, but it sucked. Hard.

On top of that, their performance was abysmal. If it was a group of drunk 40-somethings in a bar band who've got together to have a laugh, you could maybe forgive it. But this is Metallica, on national tv. I've seriously seen 8 year olds giving better performances. The guitars were out of tune, James was out of tune, they got out of time in places.
 
#5 ·
Thanks Boober....

Ok... I understand all that. But, are we SURE that is really what the wave form of the new Metallica is? Or is it just an "INTERNET METALLICA SUXXXORS" rumor? I can't imagine they wrote a pretty kick ass album, spent a 15 months recording it.. and then blow it at the end by compressing it mucho grande.....

I've listened to it many times in my car (albeit not with headphones) and it sounds ok to me... Granted my hearing sucks from years and years of 80's metal concerts, but I dunno.

Would they do this compression to hide obvious flaws in the recording? or hide obvious flaws in there playing?

Thanks again.
 
#7 ·
NP, Steve.

I would say, as someone with a knowledgeable ear and good equipment, that that is an accurate measurement of the waveform. The only way to get it that loud is to compress and brickwall limit (a type of compression) the SHIT out of it. If you compare DM with even a new album, like LoG's 'Sacrament', DM is way, way, way louder. Way.

As to why they did that, there is this thing going on called The Loudness War . Check that out and it explains it all.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Wow, that wave analysis is redonkulous! Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that the result of A LOT of compression? What I've always thought of compression is that is shrinks the loud parts so that is has less dynamics and less up and down waves? feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Its a form of compression known as limiting, basically adding a level where everything that touches a certain level in decibels will be attenuated to this certain level. For example, say you had a level limited at -12db? Anything going above it, whether its -11db, or 0db, would be attenuated to -12db. Add an output gain of 12db, and you've got EVERYTHING louder, but the dynamics squashed.

Technically its not the compression, causing the loudness, its the output gain (i.e. volume added to the track at the mixing/mastering stage) afterwards, but if the waveforms were not compressed, the output gain would be impossible to raise on them without clipping on every single note.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I can see it now.


"HEY! GUYS? REMEMBER US? METALLICA? WE RELEASED SOME KILLER ALBUMS 20 YEARS AGO. THIS ONE IS GOOD, TRUST US!"

They should just come out and say that they're not really trying anymore. At least then we'll know for sure instead of just assuming it.
 
#14 ·
^ That has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I like the album. The production sucks. That's it. I think they tried and succeeded, from a songwriting perspective. I think they definitely tried.
Yeah, I just find it has halo-2-itis. I love the songs, I love the music, I just think that, y'know, after waiting so long for it, I was kinda expecting more, especially considering the hype. I would definitely retract my "HEY REMEMBER US" statement if someone comes out and says that something went wrong and they're gonna fix it, as opposed to letting the cards lie where they fall and saying that this is what we're gonna get.
 
#20 ·
Same here.

I'm SOOOO happy to see Metallica get back to their old selfs that I don't care anymore. All of the songs are stuck in my head (ok, maybe not the "Unforgiven part IIIIII) and that's something I REALLY did not expect. I gave up on them after their 3 last albums... And now i'm so fucking glad to be headbanging while listening to Metallica again!
 
#18 ·
The problem is, I have such a good listening environment, for me, it's not only just loud (which it is), it clips. I can hear every drum beat (snare), every palm mute, just BZZZT.

And the volume levels being the same. Brickwalled. I can't help but notice that, and it just takes away from how much I actually dig the music.

I'm one of those people with super sensitive hearing, though. Like that 30kHz test tone you're supposed to not be able to hear after 30? I hear that fucker loud and clear. Shit just a tad out of tune? Drives me bonkers. In a way it almost sucks, because to me, Metallica's production is like nails on a chalkboard.
 
#22 ·
I guess I am in the minority, since I don't really like it that much. It's not bad, but it's not great, either. I just find it...boring. Justice is an album with bad production I can get over, because the songs are awesome. DM is an OK album with bad production.

Take away the over compression, and you still have muddy guitars and a shitty sounding snare. I wish James would ditch those Diezels and go back to the Mesas, and someone needs to take that awful trashcan away from Lars.
 
#23 ·
I'm with Dave. The songs I've heard so far fail to move me one way or another. I've said it before but it all sounds forced like they really need to try to get heavy and it just isn't coming naturally anymore.
 
#27 ·
That GH version does sound better.

Still way too compressed, but I can actually here some dynamics. My favorite song from the album, too. Very nice! No clipping on drum rolls!

As for this album, it is in no way, nor will ever be, AJFA. But considering what they've put out the last 15+ years, I like it. And I think James sounds good. Much better than he has.

I still miss the crazy epic songs of the old days though, especially lyrically.
 
#30 ·
That GH version does sound better.

Still way too compressed, but I can actually here some dynamics. My favorite song from the album, too. Very nice! No clipping on drum rolls!
That wasn't actually the "Guitar Hero" version per se, he used the split up files from Guitar Hero and remixed them together, so it's one up on the GH versions. Here's the description:

A metal producer who has worked with some of the top bands in the genre has put together this version of METALLICA's "Broken, Beat & Scarred" using only six separated/extracted tracks from Guitar Hero.

The producer, who is a longtime METALLICA fan, says: "All there is on Guitar Hero is six tracks stereo drums mixed with the vocals in, bass and stereo guitars. I actually went through and put the 'black album' snare in on every hit so I could fire reverb off it, but if I had the proper files it'd be so slammin'."

This is only a hint of what could have been. Remember this was created using ONLY SIX TRACKS!
Even though it wouldn't be legal, I wish he'd do the whole album and put it up as a torrent, because he did a HELL of a job on that one track!
 
#29 ·
I agree with Noodles on the part about newer albums, there are just so many killer releases this year that Death Magnetic to me just falls by the wayside of these. I aint a die harder for Metallica, therefore I judge each album on whether it is good or not (songwriting and production wise), rather than thanking Metallica for returning to their old selves, or whatever.

Give me the new Cynic, Evergrey, Iced Earth, Meshuggah, Scar Symmetry, or anything like that, and Death Magnetic just sounds boring compared imho
 
#34 ·
I'm enjoying DM more with every listen but I agree with Bob the production/clipping is hard to listen too, it's sad that I'm listening to the remix album (that was done by the guy on ssorg) more than the original. It's turned me into a hypocrite because I don't keep downloaded music but I'm finding it hard to delete this one.
 
#39 ·
I gave it another listen this weekend. I like it a little more now. There's some cool stuff going on.

...I still don't like the instrumental.


I wanted to see how much louder the original was compared to the GH rip... I damn near blew my speakers out.... I switched over and it was like WTFBOOM
 
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