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#1 ·
Hi guys, I have decided to post couple of questions after using search function for 3 days (not a joke). Anyway, this looks like an amazing forum and the amount of information I got in these 3 days is better than anything I found elsewhere in 3 weeks. I apologize for wall of text, but I usually like to think aloud and make the answers as close to "Yes" / "No" as they possible. People usually don't like to write long answers. :)

So I've decided to start playing, or better said start learning how to play guitar. So I am complete a noob. No gigs now and I don't really have plans to have any in the future. However I can get pretty serious about my hobbies and I don't like cheapish stuff. I also don't know how fast I will learn, maybe I am complete anti-talent. Therefore I don't want to spend too much, it would be overkill for my level anyway. Some of the questions, I know, will be completely basic for you, but please bear in mind that I don't have a clue.

For now I would prefer to stay with my local shop and what they can offer. I want to have someone handy and I can probably get a bit better deal as well. My budget is supposed to be limited at 1500 EUR, preferably less. I have decided to buy an ESP LTD EC-1000 with EMGs. Why? I don't know, they just look ok and I like the sound I have heard from players playing online.

Based on my lifestyle and where I live I estimate that one third of my playing will be done with headphones. I was thinking about buying Shure for around 150 EUR, so playing with headphones is kind of important.

I wanted to get RP500 + small tube combo amp, but after I saw that the last guy insisting on it got banned, I started looking at other options. ;) It seems to me that a lot of you prefer GPS1101. Can someone explain to me, what is the difference? I assume that the sound of emulated amp model, for example, is the same? I understand that GPS1101 is labeled as preamp and RP500/RP1000 is not, but I thought I read somewhere, that RP500/RP1000 is able to do the same? I guess I don't understand very well, what is the difference between these two setups:
- RP500 with only effects, no emulation --> Combo amp
- GPS1101 with only effects, no emulation --> Same Combo amp
The Combo amp has its own preamp part, so where does GPS1101 come in? If GPS1101 preamp just "takes over", does this mean that it is better than combo amp with tubes preamp section? Why would you want to use GPS1101 preamp over preamp that combo amp has? What exactly happens with such GPS1101 setup? I'm sure I am terribly misunderstanding something here.

I understand that one can buy only poweramp, so maybe that is the answer to my first question. Would that mean that GPS1101 as preamp only makes sense if I buy separate poweramp to go with it? If so, I don't have much choice, there is only Marshall EL84-20-20 available and I don't like sound of Marshall amps. I know, not a lot of choice, they could certainly order something else though, if that is what I need.

If I don't buy poweramp, what exactly are my options? What would you do? Here are the things available:
RP500/1000, GPS1101, Laney/Engl/Behringer combo amps, Engl/Laney heads, Laney/Engl/Behringer cabs.

Is there any combination here, that doesn't work? If they are all ok, what are disadvantages of them?

Damn this really is a wall of text. :eek: Sorry about that.
 
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#2 ·
I have decided to buy an ESP LTD EC-1000 with EMGs. Why? I don't know, they just look ok and I like the sound I have heard from players playing online.
I wouldn't judge the by people's video clips, cause there's so many variables. However, I have owned another guitar from the LTD 1000 series (The M-1000) and have played EC-1000s. It's a solid selection, and with a good setup, should be more than adequate for a long time to come.

I wanted to get RP500 + small tube combo amp, but after I saw that the last guy insisting on it got banned, I started looking at other options. ;) It seems to me that a lot of you prefer GPS1101. Can someone explain to me, what is the difference? I assume that the sound of emulated amp model, for example, is the same? I understand that GPS1101 is labeled as preamp and RP500/RP1000 is not, but I thought I read somewhere, that RP500/RP1000 is able to do the same? I guess I don't understand very well, what is the difference between these two setups:
- RP500 with only effects, no emulation --> Combo amp
- GPS1101 with only effects, no emulation --> Same Combo amp
The Combo amp has its own preamp part, so where does GPS1101 come in? If GPS1101 preamp just "takes over", does this mean that it is better than combo amp with tubes preamp section? Why would you want to use GPS1101 preamp over preamp that combo amp has? What exactly happens with such GPS1101 setup? I'm sure I am terribly misunderstanding something here.
That guy got banned cause he was a tool :lol:
GSP1101 is Digitech's most recent modelling preamp. I havent played them, but many people think they're great. I'll let others chime in on that.

If you're using a combo amp to amplify the GSP1101, you can either plug it in between your guitar and the amp, or use the 4 cable method (if the combo has all the inputs from it) or in the effects loop (Also, if the combo has it). If you don't want to use the combo amp's preamp, you can just set everything to nuetral on the clean channel.

I understand that one can buy only poweramp, so maybe that is the answer to my first question. Would that mean that GPS1101 as preamp only makes sense if I buy separate poweramp to go with it? If so, I don't have much choice, there is only Marshall EL84-20-20 available and I don't like sound of Marshall amps. I know, not a lot of choice, they could certainly order something else though, if that is what I need..
If you're plugging into a combo, you don't need a power amp. The combo will have one built into it. If you get one, you'll end up needing to get some kind of speaker cabinet to play that through. It'd probably be easier, and cheaper to start out with a combo amp of some kind.
 
#3 ·
The GSP is a preamp and effects processor in a rack unit. It has more varied options than a standard amp has, most amps have clean/distorted and maybe lead channels and an EQ for those. The digitech has digital models of many different amps so you get more sounds and effect on top of that.
I'd recommend you get a nice combo for the GSP, but make sure the amp you buy has an effects loop. This way you can use the GSP as a preamp through the loop. It's a great way to run it and you can still use the combo on it's own when you want. I've run mine through a poweramp and cab for gigs and also through a peavey bandit at home for practicing on a day to day basis and both ways was fine.

I'd have to say though, since you are beginning, maybe you should leave the GSP out and just buy a half decent practice amp. When you start off, you really don't want to be too distracted with options and effects, you want to focus more on learning to play. It took me a few years to really even develop a good ear for tone and to get the knowledge on how to use effects half decently.
 
#4 ·
I'd have to say though, since you are beginning, maybe you should leave the GSP out and just buy a half decent practice amp. When you start off, you really don't want to be too distracted with options and effects, you want to focus more on learning to play. It took me a few years to really even develop a good ear for tone and to get the knowledge on how to use effects half decently.
:agreed: +1000
 
#5 · (Edited)
Thanks for replies, I think I understand these connections a bit better now.

Still couple of decisions left...

Why not just GPS1101, without the combo amp? Perhaps in couple of months I could get something better, if I feel the need for it. At this moment my cheapest tube option (with FX loop) is Laney CUB12R for 320 EUR. I am not sure, how much better it would be, any opinions? The next on the list is Laney LC30-112 for 600 EUR. I think I would prefer to do the baby steps just with GPS1101 and maybe next year I can save the money for a really good amp - if I happen to get somewhere with my ability.

Of course I would still need to get cab... They are all pretty strong though, so I am not sure if I'm thinking the right way.

Crate GT112SL € 159.00
Laney CUB-CAB € 177.00
ENGL E110 GIGMASTER CABINET € 179.00
Crate GT412ST € 199.00
Behringer BG412H € 199.00
Behringer BG412S € 199.00
Laney LX412S € 235.00
Laney LX412A € 235.00

For just 120 EUR more I have the amp, which is much more useful for playing at home. How would you compare both options?
GPS1101 + Laney CUB12R
GPS1101 + one of the cabs on the list

Edit: Ok, I missed some of the speakers there... for example
Laney CX10-A 180 EUR active
or
Laney CX10 110 EUR passive

So I could also those in the mix...
 
#6 ·
Does your local store not do the Engl Gigmaster combo? Like Demeyes said and Naren seconded, too many options when you start off can really confuse, and often put you off playing, this happened with me for a while when I bought a Pod X3 Live.

I had that thing for ages, and while now, I could probably really appreciate the effects I could get from it, it took a good year or 2, and purchasing valve/tube amps and playing the shit out of those to find a tone I could really use. I'll also go on record and say that too many effects can confuse you. My rig at the minute is pretty much as straight forward as I can get it.

Front of amp:
Guitar > Boost > Noise Gate > Amp

FX Loop:
Send > Noise Gate > Return

That's only 2 pedals, and 5 cables (6 if you include the one from head to cab, which you won't need if you're running a combo). If you bought the Engl, I'd probably say you'd get away with not needing a boost too.

If I needed a practice amp, I'd get the Engl without a doubt, but I'm trying to sell a Blackstar HT-5 at the minute, since my S1-100 drops from 100w to 10w, I don't need it :lol:

If you want pics of how my set-up is run, I'll get some taken for you :)
 
#9 ·
Does your local store not do the Engl Gigmaster combo?
It does. And Thunder, Screamer, Raider, Sovereign. However the price is pretty steep... I don't know much about technical stuff and so my ears (and eyes) is everything I have. I am not a big fan of that Engl. For that price I think Blackstar HT-20 would be better. But that is strictly personal feeling, from what I have heard. I know that many people love the Engl.

Like Demeyes said and Naren seconded, too many options when you start off can really confuse, and often put you off playing, this happened with me for a while when I bought a Pod X3 Live.
I hear you and I see the point. However I am slightly older than usually guitar beginners are, so I can get pretty focused at whatever I'm doing. My plans for learning are already made and in the near future it's just drills, drills and drills, basic stuff. Maybe some delay here and there, from what I can see. I am not interested in effects that much at this point. The reason why I like having some of that Digitech stuff is:
- I see much of that functionality as investment in the future. Also some of the stuff I would have to buy even now, for example a tuner. (I know they are cheap)
- I admit I like to have those emulated amps. I am new to the party and just to have an opportunity to try different sounds I believe will show me what can be done, where are the limits. Just a short story... I heard RP1000 demo and really liked couple of the amps. I found out the models were both Mesa based. I checked around a bit more and I immediately fell in love with the beasts. Uncle Google told me the price so I cooled down a bit. Couple of days ago, I found out, that those amps are highly regarded on this forum as well. But my point is, if that RP1000 was good enough for me to pick the sound of - for my music taste - best amps, maybe Digitech is not so bad for me - for now. :) My ear is not trained well enough to catch all the subtle differences that you guys are able to catch. I do know that those Mesa Boogie amps are some serious :metal: though.

I had that thing for ages, and while now, I could probably really appreciate the effects I could get from it, it took a good year or 2, and purchasing valve/tube amps and playing the shit out of those to find a tone I could really use. I'll also go on record and say that too many effects can confuse you. My rig at the minute is pretty much as straight forward as I can get it.

Front of amp:
Guitar > Boost > Noise Gate > Amp

FX Loop:
Send > Noise Gate > Return

That's only 2 pedals, and 5 cables (6 if you include the one from head to cab, which you won't need if you're running a combo). If you bought the Engl, I'd probably say you'd get away with not needing a boost too.

If I needed a practice amp, I'd get the Engl without a doubt, but I'm trying to sell a Blackstar HT-5 at the minute, since my S1-100 drops from 100w to 10w, I don't need it :lol:

If you want pics of how my set-up is run, I'll get some taken for you :)
Thanks, I think I understand... once I understood the 4 cable method I thought that I might have a chance in the biz. :cool: No, but seriously, when a noob reads some of the complex setups like "cable from amp to there and to mixer, from mixer back and then to amp again and back to mixer, and pedal there over here... it is a guaranteed headache!

As you say simplicity is the best.

but I always recommend you play one first.
Yeah... there is one slight problem though... I can barely hold the guitar, so playing around will be a bit tough. :D

I think the LTD's a great choice for a first guitar. :yesway: It's good looking, fixed bridge (you don't want to start out on a floating trem, it'll just add frustration) and will last you a long time.
Yeah I like them. Funny enough, picking the guitar wasn't half as hard as what else to get. That guitar was love at first sight. However, my AMP love at first sight costs too much and would not be rational to get at the moment. :)
 
#7 ·
If you do not like the amplifiers we like, you get the Banhammer. Toe the line. :agreed:

:lol: EC-1000 is a great guitar man... but I always recommend you play one first. Maybe they can order one because you're serious about buying it, but you can reserve the right to pick something else if it doesn't do it for ya.
 
#10 ·
I would definitely say that if you're just starting out, going with a complex multi-effect like the GP1101 might be a little overwhelming. My recommendation would be to get a simple, small practice amp like a Roland Cube and upgrade once you're getting a feel for playing and dialing in some basic tones. You can always move up the chain later.
 
#11 ·
Definitely agree here.

Get a good sounding combo with some reverb on it as a baseline. Then you can take on the Rite of Passage for all new guitarists: buying fuckloads of different pedals. :lol:

Once you get playing and find out what you like, then it'll be easier to pick an effects unit. Drew (the other admin here) plays his ass off using nothing more than built in reverb and a delay pedal. I, on the other hand, have a $2000 dedicated effects unit.

Different strokes - figure out what your thing is, and go from there. But above all - have fun! :metal:
 
#12 ·
Gotta agree with the consensus - I own a fairly complex tube head, but it's got nothing on a lot of the modelers when it comes to behind the scenes complexity. I've been playing for something like fourteen years, and if I was to sit down with an AxeFX or something else with that sort of behind the scenes flexibility, I could literalyl lose days just sitting there tweaking and listening to slight changes until I went insane. :lol:

Honestly, my advice for a practice amp would be the Tech-21 Trademark 30, if you can find one. It's a small amp, doesn't need to be very loud to sound good, and is pretty affordable, but it sounds incredible. It's also something you probably won't outgrow - one day you'll want something bigger, probably with tubes, but this is still a great amp to take over to a buddy's place to rock out, and it can keep up with a quiet drummer. I love mine.

EDIT - and Chris, half the time I don't even turn on reverb on the amp. :lol:
 
#13 ·
Welcome!

And I completely agree with what Darren and the rest of hte board are saying as well.

1. Get a decent guitar
2. Get a practice amp
3. Get picks n' cables n' shit. :lol:

A LOT of us started on just horrible, horrible shit. My first guitar when I started playing seriously (had an acoustic at 12, learned a little and fucked around, broke it eventually, got serious at 17) was a shitty fucking thing with 1 string. :lol: 1 string! Then someone found me an electric with a bridge, tuners, and that's it. No electronics! I strung it up anyway. Hooray! I finally had 6-strings! :lol:

So... it taught me a lot, and built some "guitar character," if you will. :D
 
#15 ·
I've just realised, all this talk of amps, and effects, and none of us know what kinda music you're wanting to play mainly :lol: What do you see yourself playing in the future? Also, what kinda price range are you looking at? This could help us alot :lol: Where abouts in Europe are you too?

As far as the Blackstar HT-20, one thing to watch with that is that it has no Stand-by switch, other than that, it has reverb, and if it's anything like the HT-5 I have, it'll be killer sounding too :metal:
 
#16 ·
I would buy the LTD (although I think a lower line with less bling would do fine too) and a simple modeling amp, like the Tech 21 or Line 6 Spider IV. Both are simple enough to use, and sound WAY better than practice amps sounded when I was a kid starting out.
 
#18 ·
+1 on the metronome. I've always neglected using one, and I wish I had used one from the very start.

As far as gear.... most of us started out on cheap guitars and cheap little amps, it's just what you do :cool:

You are just starting out so you need to focus on the playing aspect. You don't even know if you will want to continue playing, or will want to pursue it further, years down the road. My advice is to make a small investment, rather than buying "pro" grade stuff at first. Given your budget you should be able to buy some great midrange stuff to start on.

My first guitar and amp was from this Yamaha combo pack, and holy fuck was it bad :lol: I've since spent thousands on guitar gear mainly because I was playing live shows and such.
 
#20 ·
Many things to chew...

Thanks for your input. No matter what I do, I appreciate your suggestions. First of all you scared the shit out of me regarding the effects, so even I do get GSP, I'm not touching those, I'll use one of the presets and that's it. Second point, metronome, I will use it from the beginning, good advice.

At the moment I am mostly thinking about the idea to get this:
- GSP
- Cab
with an intention to get a good amp head later if I happen to get somewhere with the whole thing. I found another shop close to me, they have one of the Blackstar models for 1k+ which sounds pretty damn good for my taste as well.

About this idea, is it crazy or it can work well? I heard some good words regarding directly connecting GSP and speakers. Based on the "specifications" on this link:
DigiTech® GSP1101 Multi-Effects Preamp & Processor
what can I expect if I connect it to one of these cabs:
Laney TT412 (615 EUR)
ENGL E212VH (600 EUR)

Will I see much difference compared to the following options:
Laney LX412 (235 EU)
Crate GT412ST (200 EUR)

If I get one of the first two, then the only thing left for me to get (next year) would be a good head. I have this mental block against buying (sorry, obtaining) something that I would have to throw away later. So that is why I came up with this plan... :nuts: Well second part of reason is just that I saw some people getting good sound this way, but they did have also good cab. I just can't give away money for something that "you can replace in 10 months, if you overgrow it". I see it as throwing money out of the window and my rational/logical side (I am a mathematician and I professionally work as a bookmaker, so this part has been trained for a long time!) is talking pretty strong against a cheap practice amp. With this plan I don't lose a single euro.

Where am I thinking wrong? Has anyone any comments regarding those 4 cab models maybe?
 
#22 ·
Alright thanks, I knew something wouldn't fit together... I was reading those specifications and I was worried with all those "mW" units. :D About the 412 and 112, I just noticed that price difference is very small. Is something terribly wrong if I pay that small extra money and get the bigger version instead? Does a big speaker need to be fed louder sound to show equal quality? Anyway, Engl is E212VH so a bit more compact.
 
#24 ·
Well, there are a few things to consider:

- Are you comfortable lugging around 100 lbs. of speaker cabinet if you ever start playing out?
- Does your living environment allow you to have a REALLY LOUD speaker cabinet for practice?
- Do you have a vehicle capable of carrying a 412 cab?

Others will argue differently (Chris) but i think a 412 is overkill for all but the most serious gigging musicians. If you want it, that's fine, but they're big, heavy, awkward and loud. If you get a 112 or 212, you can always add a second cab later. I've played many shows with a pair of 112s and i've never had a problem with not having enough volume.
 
#26 ·
Budda, thanks for suggestions, but I am pretty much limited to two local shops. Also no used stuff. I live on a small island after all. :)

One shop has Laney and Engl, the other has Blackstar, Fender.


Yeah, I guess you are right, I'm not getting 412. I am not sure how loud my neighbors will tolerate me, but those crazy kids screaming their asses off are somewhere around 412 cabs - at least when it comes to how annoying it is!

Anyway, so many choices... Now I am thinking about getting Blackstar H5 head (as a shortterm solution) to go with Engle 212 cabinet (900 total). Or I could ditch all together and get a Blackstar S1 -45W Combo for 1150. However I have problem with prices like these, because Mesa Boogies are not far away then. :( It would be so much easier if I just got something as a gift and I couldn't choose anything myself. :)
 
#25 ·
Guitar: whatever you want
Amp: used peavey blazer 158 (2ch, 15W, reverb)
Korg CA-30 chromatic tuner, Quiktime metronome ($35 together ish)
A pack of picks - try various thicknesses, see what you like
Spare strings
An instructor.

$400 and you're golden!
 
#27 ·
It's my understanding that Mesa Boogies in Europe are MUCH more expensive. All the brands you're looking at (other than Fender) are all based in Europe, so they're much more affordable over there.

I have a Blackstar HT5 and i love it. And believe me, it's no slouch when it comes to volume, either. Several of the guys here will confirm that i was literally shaking the house with it plugged into a 412 with a distortion pedal in front of it. Loudest 5 watts ever!

With a pair of Blackstar 112s, it's a mighty little mini-stack.

I haven't tried any of the higher-end Blackstars, but i hear they're awesome.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Definitely I consider it. I like the sound.
As for Mesa, the prices in Europe (continental) are (second column is USD):

MESA BOOGIE MARK V 112 BK 2999 4138.62
MESA BOOGIE MARK V HEAD 2790 3850.2
MESA BOOGIE LONESTAR SPECIAL 2X12" 2599 3586.62
MESA BOOGIE DUAL RECTIFIER 2399 3310.62
MESA BOOGIE TRIPLE RECTIFIER 2299 3172.62
MESA BOOGIE RECTO 2 ONE HUNDRED 2269 3131.22
MESA BOOGIE RECT-O-VERB 1x12 2169 2993.22
MESA BOOGIE RECT-O-VERB HEAD 2075 2863.5
MESA BOOGIE DUAL RECTIFIER B-STOCK 2035 2808.3
MESA BOOGIE EXPRESS 5:50 2X12 1890 2608.2
MESA BOOGIE SINGLE RECTIFIER 1845 2546.1
MESA BOOGIE RECTIFIER PREAMP 1739 2399.82
MESA BOOGIE EXPRESS 5:50 HEAD MEDIUM 1699 2344.62
MESA BOOGIE EXPRESS 5:25 1X12 1690 2332.2
MESA BOOGIE EXPRESS 5:50 HEAD LONG 1599 2206.62
MESA BOOGIE EXPRESS 5:25 1X10 1499 2068.62
MESA BOOGIE 50/50 1468 2025.84
MESA BOOGIE EXPRESS 5:25 HEAD 1419 1958.22
MESA BOOGIE RECTIFIER4X12 STD SLANT 1259 1737.42
MESA BOOGIE 20/20 1222 1686.36
MESA BOOGIE RECTIFIER4X12STD STRAIGHT 1222 1686.36
MESA BOOGIE RECTIFIER GUITAR CABINET 2X12V 879 1213.02
MESA BOOGIE RECTIFIER GUITAR CABINET 2X12 755 1041.9

I don't know how that compares to your local prices.

Edit: are these price real? :noplease:

Guitar Amp Heads | Sweetwater.com

That is some amazing difference!
 
#31 ·
Yes, I just found some discussions amongst pissed of European guitar/bass players. I am absolutely certain that similar thing in another industry/brand (I forgot which one, but it has a similar market position within that industry as Mesa/Boogie has within amp industry) has been decided to be illegal by EU. Remember, EU was the one fining Microsoft couple of times. That could be the reason for Mesa/Boogie to sell their products for considerably more to European dealers - they are not allowed to dictate price in the same way they are able to do in USA. So they just take more money from the dealers and say "do what you want from now on." The last part is just my guess.
 
#32 ·
Regardless, i think you have some very solid options to choose from, without having to go to Mesa/Boogie, unless that's REALLY a sound you want.

Over here we have similar issues with Diezel and Engl... they're quite expensive in relation to the competition from this side of the Atlantic.
 
#36 ·
Ok, I wanted to obtain some gear today and I was one day late. Last EC-1000 sold yesterday. :( I tried very hard to like one of the other models, but the only two I liked were ESP Eclipse-I CTM and to some extent F STD Sanskrit. Both well over my budget. I liked Eclipse so much that I was even thinking about buying it for about 30 seconds. But 600 EUR difference means a lot of money for other gear. Can somebody confirm that EC-1000 feels like that Eclipse-I CTM? I liked how thin it was, compared to LTD Viper.

As far as I saw they like to recommend to every mid budget potential client this guitar for reasonable 550 EUR:
DBZ Guitars : Bolero GX Bone Church
The demonstration of single coil/humbucker switch was quite convincing to me, but maybe it is just my lack of experience. Interesting guitar, does anyone have any experience or opinion about it?

Anyway, I asked if I could order EC-1000 and they said no. :confused: They only have whatever they are sent from USA. Strange. So I am looking for a decent shop, which ships ESP LTD guitars internationally to EU countries. Any suggestions?
 
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