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Recto Effects Loops (solved)

12K views 99 replies 14 participants last post by  Divebombs 
#1 ·
So I'm back playing in a band again and I've been comparing my amp with my other guitarist's amp as we play the same model, and I noticed something interesting about the effects loop in relation to volume. Mesa effects loops can vary by the year, so here's the one I have:



The amp is a 3 channel triple, not sure what year but I'm assuming 2005-2010 or so. I have the loop at 100% mix, so everything is funneling through the loop.

Anyway onto my point, I am hearing some dramatic differences in volume with the loop engaged. With the loop send volume set to "normal", I'm losing about 50% of my volume. However if I roll this dial all the way up, I get some pretty serious clipping and it's not in a good way. I'm assuming it's the Mesa preamp overdriving my HD500, but I'm not certain. I generally have to turn my amp's output up a bit higher than my other guitarist has to (he doesn't run anything in his amp's loop right now), and not that it matters really with a 150 watt amp as I still have a ton of headroom to play with, but I'd like to not have to do that if I didn't have to.

Have any of you experienced this as well?
 

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#3 ·
Ok cool, thanks. There's not really a loop volume in the setting, so I'll need to find a way to do it. I run a post eq, I may pump up the output on that and see if it corrects it. I think the line/amp switch on the hd500 is before the loop, but I'll have to check.
 
#4 ·
IIRC on the HD500 you will need to set the master volume of the unit to be at unity gain with the bypassed loop. You can also verify there is not thing wrong with your loop by plugging in a patch cable in the loop to see if you have the same volume losses.
 
#5 ·
Do you have another pedal to try in the loop? I bet it'll sound better and not cause volume loss. When I ran the HD500 in the loop of my DC-5, I had the same problem, and it was a big tone suck, compared to nothing in the loop. I had no issues with an Echo Park and Boss chorus in there.
 
#6 ·
***: Are you talking about the master volume knob, or a specific setting in the unit? I have the settings in the unit set to unity gain already, I usually keep the master knob at about 3 o'clock just because it seems to give me the same front-end as an OD pedal at that setting.

Jeff: No, I should though. The only other pedal I have is an overdrive.

I had some free time this morning and tried a few options. I found this discussion on the Line 6 forum: Pod Hd 500: The Fx Loop Attenuates The Signal At The Send Jack - POD HD - Line 6 Community

After reading through there a bit, I tried adding an EQ and boosting it by 12dB, that worked but the tone was odd. So I tried switching the line/amp switch to line, and it still wasn't right. So I tried this, I didn't realize there was a "mixer" in the chain on the HD500, it's the little sliver right next to the amp model block that I usually have disengaged. I bumped it up to its max, 12dB:



The problem seems to be solved, my gain sounds right with no attenuation. I'll need to try it at rehearsal volume later this week and see, plus I'll need to see if I should put the FX blocks before or after the mixer, I know driving effects too much can cause some issues as well.
 

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#10 ·
Overall I love how it sounds in the loop and have used it this way going on four years now. The only effect that really isn't great on it is the reverb, but the quality of the other effects, particularly the overdrives and pitch shifter more than makes up for it.

Though I am GASing for an Afterneath or a Big Sky ;)
 
#11 ·
Is it the pedal HD500 or the Pro? When I had my HD500 4 cabled it was a massive tone suck, but I think that was down to the length of the cables. Adam (Cobra Commander) had the same issue. That could be part of the problem. Reading up on things after I went rack, having a buffer inline with the fx send/return seems to eliminate the tone suck
 
#26 ·
So its the POD :lol:

Any other pedal or even just a cable in the loop doesn't have the issue the POD does. While I am nowhere near punting on the POD and this rig sounds really good for live use, do you guys have any recommendations for a multi effect unit that doesn't have that lovely tone suck feature?
 
#28 ·
Vince, interesting to see you bumping this, because I really hate the FX loop on my Roadster.

Apparently a lot of other people do too. :lol:

I don't run modeling multi-fx but there are a lot of pedals that are just straight up unusable with that amp. Probably going to trade it here in a bit. :lol: It has some nice sounds, but between the mass of unecessary controls, shitty loop, and the fact that I like knobs that are fucking labeled it's just not my thing.
 
#31 ·
Yeah it looks like Mesa was trying to sell the loop in their manual as a feature, but it's pretty far from one. Their amps are series now, so that tells you what they really thought of it. I was wrong in my OP in that I said I have a series loop, I had thought it was series all this time b/c I can get 100% wet signal, but it's still the same parallel loop.

Other pedals I try work fine in the loop, it's just the HD500 that gives me a change to the sound that most people wouldn't hear, but I sure as heck can. I had the same problem years ago with my G-Force I had in my old Triaxis/2:90 rig. Mainly, I need a delay, gate, and decent intelligent harmonizer for any multi-effect I use. I'm not looking to make a jump now, but a single unit, like a Eventide PitchFactor or even a used AFX Standard would probably do the trick I think.

Dave, how's the harmonizer on the G Major 2?
 
#29 ·
Wirelessly posted :)dio:)

G Major 2. I've been happy with mine, and they're reasonably priced for what you get; decent chorus, flange and phaser, awesome delays. The intelligent pitch shifter works well, too. Just make sure to set master output to 0dB, since it's -12dB from the factory.
 
#32 ·
Ok this is weird seeing so much hate on the Recto parallel loop

I had a Mesa Triple Rectifier (3 channel) from 2006, it was a Parallel loop BUT not like yours, it only had one MIX knob going from dry to wet %.

I tested the loop extensively with pedals and also multieffects and ranging from 50% wet/dry to 100% wet for other uses.

From my experience, parallel loops sound way better because they actually retain the natural tone of the amp, so they work especially well with Chorus and Delay pedals set to 100% level and setting the loop mox at 40-50%.

Then Multieffects units I noticed that contrarily to decent quality pedals, digitalize your signal, which can be noticed when turning your fx-loop off and comparing to your analog direct signal. Also if you set it at 100% wet it technically becomes series because it removes you parallel dry signal completely.

I'm not a professionnal with multieffects, I used some but to me it's the kind of piece of gear that will always change your tone unless it doesn't digitalize your signal. Otherwise I would advise you to experiment with pedals (yeah I've always had a love/hate relationship with pedals though) as you said you noticed some of then worked fine.

So, as you seem to be aware, the fx-loop is not the issue. The POD definitely is.

And my opinion? The parallel loop in Mesa Rectos is my favourite with pedals.
 
#33 ·
Then where do you put your gate, divebombs? If you're not gating a 100% wet mix, I'd think your gate on a high gain patch would be relatively useless.

And you're right, 100% is pretty much series from my experience, which is why I am saying the issue is more the floorboard than the amp, for sure.
 
#34 ·
Yeah, but definitely a great FX loop.

As for the gate, actually I used the ISP pro-g rack but mostly for the front end, the loop was definitely in channel B of the gate and mix at 50%, not ideal but it did take some pre-amp noise out and also pedal/fx noise out as well.

But yeah I did use it with an EQ in the loop and I used the mix at 100% wet, then you can use quality pedals with a decent internal mixer. I'm actually in the process of testing out delays and choruses for that purpose.
 
#35 ·
I'd highly recommend the G System as it can do the 4 cable method as well, and be an all in one floorboard or rack mounted. Read Blair's white paper to get to grips with it as the manual is shit, but aside from that it's fantastic. The harmonizer is better than the Pod one to my ears as well, the Pod harmonizer has more artifacts than the G System/Nova System one.

Also, have you considered modding the fx loop to series? You just have to join two of the wires attached to the mix pot and remove the 3rd wire.

 
#36 ·
if you are after 4cm vince, dont discount the GSP1101.

its a bit dated now, but can be had very cheap and was designed with 4cm in mind so its very transparent. i picked one up a week or two ago, but tomorrow night will be the first chance i've had to play it cranked.

When James and I tried it round his place last week it was very transparent in my Mark IV - and I have Rocka levels of OCD when it comes to tone suck. It was certainly more transparent than the POD HD500 I used to own. i've read some reports of it being more transparent than the GMaj2 and even AFX ultras - but don't quote me on that. The FX are decent, its 1u, does amp modelling and you can load IRs if either of those features interest you.

if you need harmonizers, James and I can have a play with those tomorrow night and let you know how they sound.

also, does your parallel loop go true 100% wet? I heard somewhere that rectos loops on 100% wet are actually only really about 90% wet. The serial mod would cure that though.
 
#37 ·
also, does your parallel loop go true 100% wet? I heard somewhere that rectos loops on 100% wet are actually only really about 90% wet. The serial mod would cure that though.
I never heard about that but since I don't own the recto anymore, I can't test it. It sounded fine when I used it but I imagine it could "color" the sound (color with the uncolored tone that is....haha) if you really want 100% of your signal digitalized.
 
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