Arranger's block?

[keithb]

I have a confession: I've written very few complete songs. I have a bunch of melody, chord and lyric snippets written down or recorded, but I've completed maybe 3 of them in the past 10 years. I can't seem to get the hang of transitioning between parts and arranging the song as a whole.

For example, I've been working on a light prog/space rock piece, I have chords for the verse and chorus parts, I have lyrics (mostly) written, and I have vocal melodies written. I'm aiming for a sound in this genre:

YouTube - Lana Lane - Night Falls

Sounds like I've got almost the whole thing, right? I can play it on the acoustic guitar, and it's OK, but I'd like to arrange it for a full rock band. I can play electric guitar, bass, a bit of drums, keys, etc, but I can't for the life of me sit down and record anything that involves more than acoustic guitar and vocals and have it sound good. I'm not talking tone or production, just organization, etc.

Mostly just venting, but if anyone has any suggestions on how to turn a 'singer/songwriter' style demo into a full rock band arrangement, I'm all ears.

[telecaster90]

Just think in layers. You have the kick drum and bass holding down the low end, guitar in the middle, and keys if you have it switching going anywhere you want it to go, and any other wind or string instrument (violin, sax, etc,) just put in sonically where it fits and adjust accordingly. Example: If you wanted a bari sax in a group, you could potentially get rid of your bass player if you also have a piano player that can help with the low end. Having two guitar players can buff up the mid range sound if you find that it's lacking.

[Drew]

Hmm. That sounds like two completely different questions to me...

First, having bits and peices of songs, but nothing complete... Happens to me all the time, don't laugh. My experience has been it's just a matter of waiting - without sitting down and breaking out where everything came from in the album I've been working on I can only estimate, but suffice to say it's NOT uncommon for me to come up with a riff or an idea, let it lie dormant for a couple years because I can't figure out what to do with it, and then suddenly have it click with something else I've been working on lately and suddenly I have a song. One of my favorite tracks thus far takes a riff I came up with probably four or five years ago and mates it with a chorus section and melody line from less than a year ago, plus a chorus melody that I actually wrote jamming along with the track after I'd recorded a different chorus. Another song took a demo I'd recorded a long time ago that I was never very happy with the chorus, and mated it with a melody I sort of wrote in my head walking around India that was originally supposed to be a very different sort of song, but worked perfectly with that earlier idea (well, once I rearranged the chords a touch). Still another one took a riff I wrote a year or two back and a melody I wrote while recording it, and just for kicks lifted a harmonic intro for a song of mine that's probably more than a decade old now - no harm plagiarizing if you're plagiarizing yourself, right? Sometimes, it just takes time for pieces to fit together.

For the second... Arranging is always something I've really enjoyed. It's really just a matter of thinking up a whole bunch of cool, interlocking little parts. I guess the thing I'd suggest if you're having trouble taking an acoustic/vocal song and turning it into a rock band piece, maybe start by recording everything BUT the acoustic. Lay down a drum track or a drum loop or even just a click, take the changes and come up with a cool bassline than implies them, come up with a rhythm part, and the whole while you're doing it don't even think about the chord voicings or strumming pattern of the acoustic version, but rather what you'd do if you were playing the song without that part in it. It might help, it might not, but it's worth a try...

[jacksonplayer]

My advice is just to plow through and initially put all the pieces you've got together into *something*--anything, really. Even if it sucks initially, you can start adding/subtracting sections and instruments once you've something to work with on the page (or the hard drive).

Keep it really basic to start out with. Record your voice and acoustic in time with a MIDI click track, and you can add anything you want over the top of it later on, ultimately replacing your original scratch vocal and guitar entirely.

It's the 'blank page' syndrome. Once you get over the hump and get a rough sketch down, you'll probably find that the writing and arranging ideas flow very fast.

Most rock songs, even prog metal, are organized around fairly basic verse/chorus/bridge structures. What makes them into great songs is the "connective tissue" between those sections, the stuff that ensures flow and continuity. That can be drum fills, connective riffs, sub-verses, sub-choruses, all kinds of stuff. It's better to focus on getting the sequence of the building blocks of the song down first, and then worry about the connective tissue later. Fleshing out the arrangement is probably the last part of the process to worry about. You can do just about anything with a good underlying song.

[keithb]

Originally Posted by jacksonplayer

Most rock songs, even prog metal, are organized around fairly basic verse/chorus/bridge structures. What makes them into great songs is the "connective tissue" between those sections, the stuff that ensures flow and continuity. That can be drum fills, connective riffs, sub-verses, sub-choruses, all kinds of stuff. It's better to focus on getting the sequence of the building blocks of the song down first, and then worry about the connective tissue later. Fleshing out the arrangement is probably the last part of the process to worry about. You can do just about anything with a good underlying song.

I think this is part of my problem - getting that "connective tissue" right is something I have no practice at.

[7 Strings of Hate]

Just think of it like hockey. A guy can shoot a ton, but only score every once in a while. Your going to have to just push through parts that dont sound right and sound cheesy to get a finished product. But like chris said, you basically then have an outline that you can listen to over and over and replace parts. Typically i do this and my songs morph a great amount from my original idea, then other times i like the orginal idea and realize its the strongest part and i dont want to stray from it.

I was in your shoes about a year and a half/two years ago. Im a fucking AWESOME player, but i hadnt written barley any finished songs. I decided being a superb mimic wasnt as cool as being a ok musician. But after about 2 years of just pushing through, and developing my writing style, i'v had the last few months become my creative flurry. It seems like i'm writing songs litterally every other day. And ones i LIKE too. Part of my original problem was that i was my own worst critic and would shoot down ideas before i even got them off the ground.

So in short, its like practicing a song, you have to do it a bunch before you actually get it right. You have to write 5 or 10 songs before you get one you like sometimes, but in the end, the feeling is worth it.

[jacksonplayer]

Originally Posted by keithb

I think this is part of my problem - getting that "connective tissue" right is something I have no practice at.

It's a musical skill that requires developing, just like any other. It's not that difficult to string a whole bunch of complicated riffs together in a chain, but to make a cohesive song out of them takes a lot of effort and practice. I read interviews all the time with guys who talk about how some songs come together in minutes, while others take years to finally come together.

Remember, that transitions don't have to be elaborate to work. Something as simple as a two-beat drum fill or intro guitar riff can work great to connect song sections that are vastly different. Sometimes, those can actually be the most memorable parts of a song. Of course, a lack of a smooth transition can also be an effective songwriting device, but probably not something you want to overdo.

Also, don't worry about creating a complex song right off the bat. Start first with trying to finish a simple metal song with the traditional verse/chorus/bridge structure. Focus on making sure the vocal melodies and lyrics are the best you can do. Use basic riffs and progressions that complement the vocal melodies. You can always add more complexity later, but none of that matters if the fundamental parts of the song are weak.