Straight fourths tuning

[noodles]

Has anyone ever tried getting rid of the pesky major third near the top of the guitar? I decided to play around a little with it last night (tuning BEADGCF), just for the hell of it.

Immediately, I noticed that scale playing became practically effortless. It just felt more natural without the one fret up shift on the second string, which sped things up considerably. After about five minutes, it started feeling completely natural, since I always felt like I had to fight to make my fingers not go into the wrong places on the first and second strings. The arpeggios would require some work, since I'd have to relearn all the forms, but at least I would be learning patterns that would apply to any string grouping on the fretboard. This is the sort of uniformity that the violin family enjoys.

The drawback? Bar chords and open position chords become absolutely impossible. This tuning just does not lend itself to "orchestral" parts. Triads are nice, since there is no longer E, A, and D forms (they're all E form), but it simply makes more expanded voicings a nightmare. You can also forget solo or duet acoustic performances, where the primary role is to back up vocals.

So, it is a neat experiment that I might pursue further one day, but I'm not sure I could ever use it in the bands I am currently in. Maybe in metal, if I thought things out, but there is at least one song I can think of with a clean, arpeggiated intro that would be impossible to duplicate.

[Mike]

The chord issues you mentioned are the exact reason that "Spanish" guitar tuning was invented. Classical guitar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[distressed_romeo]

It's an interesting idea, and I've often been tempted to experiment with it for exactly the reasons you describe. The main problem is that I've spent so long with standard tuning now that the major third (usually) doesn't bother me, so I'm not sure if I'd gain any real advantage from switching.

I don't think it's a coincidence that's it's generally jazzers who've made the most of the fourths tuning, given that they generally tend to play four note chord voicings, and don't generally use many open strings. When you consider how much of a nightmare it can be keeping track of fingerings in a jazz tune where the key changes ever bar, the symmetry of the fourths tuning becomes extremely attractive.

I can really see it being an advantage if you're getting into ERG instruments with 9+ strings, as it would elimanate the problem of the major third being in a different place if you're adding extra high strings. When I was experimenting with DGCFADG tuning, I got so sick of having to remind myself that the 3rd was between the third and fourth strings rather than the second and third, that I ended up altering it to DGCFBbDG. If you were using fourths as your standard, you could keep adding strings in either direction without those sorts of headaches.

I've actually experimented with fifths in the past as well (mostly on a four-string bass, or a guitar tuned in Robert Fripp's CGDAEG arrangement), and that really exagerates the advantages and disadvantages of fourths, as some things become insanely easy, but virtually all of the standard guitar trick bag becomes virtually impossible.

[noodles]

I've been learning how to play mandolin for the cover band, and the fifths tuning is absolutely driving me nuts. Luckily, the extremely short scale length eliminates the problematic stretches, but for a guy used to guitar, I find ascending scales that move laterally down the fretboard to be extremely annoying.

I'd like to see Josh comment on this, since he plays cello.

[eleven59]

Wirelessly posted (Samsung-SPHM500 AU-OBIGO/Q04C1-1.17_PRE_1 MMP/2.0)

Double neck

[Josh]

I was about to comment on that exact fact, Dave. Guitarists have it easy, and it's one of the reasons I turned to guitar in high school when I was feeling frustrated with cello and the classical repertoire in general.

Because of the cello's fifths tuning (and also thanks to the relatively long scale length and relatively few positions clear of the body) I had to memorize different finger patterns for literally every scale. Improvising in a key with lots of sharps and flats can be difficult as well, requiring extended stretches and shifts. Even something as elementary as E major requires a nasty sharp-to-flat stretch in first position, as I have to reach my pinky to the C# before stretching my first finger back to the D#.

However, my ability to play chords/dyads/triads is relatively unhindered, and it's nice to be able to get a root/fifth chord with one finger when I'm doing Apocalyptica-style stuff. Linear melodies (like major/minor scalar runs and the like) are also not a problem once you have them under your fingers; however, getting a smooth pentatonic or other wider-interval scale run at speed is very tricky as there is no way to play it without shifting all over the place.

I remember commenting on several fifths-tuning threads that I don't think I will ever bother fiddling with fifths tuning, since one of the reasons I love noodling on guitar so much is because there's so much less shifting involved!

[Drew]

Originally Posted by noodles

I've been learning how to play mandolin for the cover band, and the fifths tuning is absolutely driving me nuts. Luckily, the extremely short scale length eliminates the problematic stretches, but for a guy used to guitar, I find ascending scales that move laterally down the fretboard to be extremely annoying.

I'd like to see Josh comment on this, since he plays cello.

This gets progressively trickier on a guitar as you move towards the nut due to scale lenght, but a 5ths tuning would KILL for four note per string patterns. You'd literally be able to play 4nps as a box pattern.

[keithb]

Originally Posted by noodles

I've been learning how to play mandolin for the cover band, and the fifths tuning is absolutely driving me nuts. Luckily, the extremely short scale length eliminates the problematic stretches, but for a guy used to guitar, I find ascending scales that move laterally down the fretboard to be extremely annoying.

I'd like to see Josh comment on this, since he plays cello.

I find that if I can get myself convinced the mandolin is just an upside down guitar, I can actually apply my guitar finger memory and general knowledge pretty easily.

[Elysian]

Yeah, I've messed with straight 4ths, but the chord thing and arpeggio thing really killed it for me. Haven't messed with it since, no matter how natural it felt while doing scales :/

[noodles]

Originally Posted by Drew

This gets progressively trickier on a guitar as you move towards the nut due to scale lenght, but a 5ths tuning would KILL for four note per string patterns. You'd literally be able to play 4nps as a box pattern.

I've given that some thought on mandolin, since the stretches are managable. On guitar, I'd need to have Rusty Cooley's hands to pull it off.

Originally Posted by keithb

I find that if I can get myself convinced the mandolin is just an upside down guitar, I can actually apply my guitar finger memory and general knowledge pretty easily.

I approached mandolin that way at first, but quickly abandoned it. Not only does it it make it difficult to lead with the root on chords, but all of your scales wind up being inside out: ascend three notes, fall back six.