And I get crap for being a doper

[7 Strings of Hate]

Us dopers are gonna save all your asses america!
A budget cure: Marijuana taxes?

[Mr. Hand]

I see someone else is going to be having problems getting to my class on time.

[jaxadam]

Explain the Holocaust...

[Chris]

As much as I hate to say it, 7SoH has a point. The problem is, for every normal, taxpaying, non-grammatically challenged person who argues for legalization, there are 500,000 stoner morons shouting louder. If the "cause" can do away with people like Tommy Chong as it's mouthpiece, I think it has a chance.

Edit: The thing that's going to be argued is the amount of revenue brought in annually (which will, no doubt, never be fully disclosed) by busting people for possession of it. I'm sure a tax on it would dwarf that number, but I'm willing to bet the amount made by fines and court fees is a lot larger than anyone would admit.

[noodles]

The idea is nothing new, and it is still a good one. Consider how much money we rake in on alcohol and tobacco, and those are a hell of a lot more harmful.

[7 Strings of Hate]

I think one way to look at it is - Its not like we would be releasing crack on the streets or anything. Just a bunch of mellow, hungry people.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hand

I see someone else is going to be having problems getting to my class on time.

Long time no see mr.hand

[Chris]

Originally Posted by noodles

The idea is nothing new, and it is still a good one. Consider how much money we rake in on alcohol and tobacco, and those are a hell of a lot more harmful.

Tobacco, not so much, according to a quick Google:

'More tar' in cannabis than cigarettes

'More tar' in cannabis than cigarettes
Herald Sun ^ | 27 March 2006
Posted on Sun Mar 26 2006 19:18:10 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) by Aussie Dasher

SMOKING three cannabis joints will cause you to inhale the same amount of toxic chemicals as a whole packet of cigarettes, according to research published in France today.

Cannabis smoke contains seven times more tar and carbon monoxide, the French National Consumers' Institute concluded in research published in the April edition of its monthly magazine.

The institute tested regular Marlboro cigarettes alongside 280 specially rolled joints of cannabis leaves and resin in an artificial smoking machine.

The tests examined the content of the smoke for tar and carbon monoxide, as well as for the toxic chemicals nicotine, benzene and toluene.

"Cannabis smoke contains seven times more tar and carbon monoxide than tobacco smoke," the institute's magazine says.

Someone smoking a joint of cannabis resin rolled with tobacco will inhale twice the amount of benzene and three times as much toluene as if they were smoking a regular cigarette, the study says.

Smokers of pure cannabis leaves will also inhale more of these chemicals than from a normal cigarette, though the amount varies depending on the quantities.

"Smoking three joints every day – which is becoming frequent – makes you run the same risks of cancer or cardio-vascular diseases as smoking a packet of cigarettes," the magazine says.

The problem is, if someone abuses the shit out of tobacco, they cough a lot and feel like shit. If someone abuses the shit out of marijuana, they're completely impaired. And (if you read this month's Car & Driver, there's actually an article on it) it's a lot harder to give someone an accurate DWI that will stand up in court if someone's on a shitload of grass. There are plenty of "symptoms", but other than a roadside urine test, it's not as definitive as a BAC breathalyzer. So the law enforcement side of busting someone that's high gets tricky, and it would need to be controlled and enforced just like alcohol.

I can have 2 beers after work and drive home, no problem. I don't smoke, but if I smoked an entire joint, I'd have no business at all being on the road. A cop can tell within a few minutes if I'm lying or not when I say "I've only had two beers". If I say "I smoked two puffs of marijuana", that's going to effect me (a non-pot-smoker) differently than someone who smokes it all the time.

And you KNOW that people are going to smoke the living hell out of it once it's legal. I can have two beers at lunch and go back to work. I don't really want to have to deal with people who are "legally stoned" coming back from lunch every day.

[noodles]

Shit, I am a moron and edited dave's post instead of my own.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by noodles

Shit, I am a moron and edited dave's post instead of my own.

^^^ Sorry dude. Pretend Dave said all the quoted stuff.

I'm talking about nicotine versus THC, not tar. Tar comes from burning plant matter, and you don't get it from chewing tobacco or vaporizing marijuana. Medicinal use is typically vaporization, so if you chose to smoke it, understand that ANY form of smoking is bad.

Agreed, but if they legalize it, it's not like people are going to vaporize it. They're going to smoke joints. Thus, for 99.9% of the population, smoking it might be a wee less harmful than a cigarette, but they'll both be fucking terrible for you.

The enforcement side is actually not tricky at all, since a DUI arrest only requires that the officer be reasonably convinced that the driver's ability is being negatively impacted by a substence. For example, acid, mushrooms, cocaine, heroin, crack...literally everything BUT alcohol won't show up on a breathalyzer, but cops have been successfully busting people for years. They're looking at speech, bloodshot or dialated eyes, loss of motor coordination, loss of logic skills, etc. Every single field sobriety test can bust a stoner.

Negative, ghostrider. I'll try and find the link, or just take a macro of the article that lays it all out. It's a lot harder to stick in court than you think, and it's not like they can just reel people in and give them urine tests. I could take one hit and have bloodshot eyes and slur like a moron.

In addition to what I said above, I am sure some sort of "container" law would be put in place governing pot. So, if you rolling around with the "but I didn't inhale" excuse, the cop is going to bust you for the tamper-proof seal on your bag being busted. Just like alcohol, you can smell.

True, but if it's legal, there's nothing to stop people from blazing up at a "bar".

I always hated this argument, since I have NEVER had a job where I can drink two beers and come back to work. I come back to work with alcohol on my breath, I'm gone. Every time I had a beer for lunch was some sort of holiday party. When you sign that paperwork your first day, you're agreeing that you will not come to work impaired, whether the substance is legal or not.

Disagree with the former, agree with the latter. Last time Drew and I grabbed Mexican, we had a couple of Coronas and a giant plate of stinky ass enchiladas. There was nothing but the sweet smell of salsa on our breath. Two beers doesn't impair me, but I understand with (and agree with) what you're saying.

I don't see what will make us suddenly become a nation of potheads. It's legal in Holland, and while the legends of Amsterdam are like Vegas times a hundred, Holland has a much lower use rate than we do. If anything, the people that become "new" users will be abandoning alcohol for it. I think a guy going fifteen over the limit and swerving around is much, much more dangerous than some dude doing ten under in the right, leaving twelve car lengths between him and the next guy, and braking a quarter of a mile out from every stop light.

Impaired is impaired though. While you might drive slower, it doesn't mean that everyone will. It's not speeding and swerving that scares me, I can see/avoid them. It's the guy that's high and blows a stop sign while I'm on my motorcycle in the middle of the intersection because he was too busy zoning out to Pink Floyd to notice it. This applies to alcohol as well, of course. I just think the youth of today is going to go batshit pot-crazy when they do inevitably legalize it, and that scares the hell out of me.

[noodles]

Aww, fuck, I ain't retyping all of that.

Short version of response to the your response: look back to the end of prohibition for what to expect, outlawing what an adult does to their own person is unconstitutional, you already can't smoke in bars, and kids these days.