Is Metallica prog? - Page 2
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Thread: Is Metallica prog?

  1. #9


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    You could argue that they are at least a bit prog since they also helped progress the genre itself. They did a lot of stuff that thrash wasn't doing, and you'd have a hard time counting all the bands that were either influenced, or built of something that Metallica was doing at some point with their music.
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  3. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Drucifer View Post
    They qualify in my book as a prog band and not just because of MoP and Justice, but because they've progressed (or as some would say, regressed) as a band their entire career. Dream Theater is a band that writes progressive music, but does not progress
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  4. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKindred View Post
    You could argue that they are at least a bit prog since they also helped progress the genre itself. They did a lot of stuff that thrash wasn't doing, and you'd have a hard time counting all the bands that were either influenced, or built of something that Metallica was doing at some point with their music.
    But can you progress something that wasn't really defined yet?

    I mean, up until that point of the early 80's the heaviest stuff was what, Zeppelin, Sabbath, and everything else we consider to be classic rock now; but thrash and what would become metal was brand new so you could do whatever you wanted to and say, "yeah, well, it's our take on it" and that'd be the end of it. Nowadays if you did that, you're not considered thrash in the traditional sense, since there's a lot of meandering that snobs would say doesn't fit the criteria, but back then there was no criteria to fit in because they were literally creating it.

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  6. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by MFB View Post
    But can you progress something that wasn't really defined yet?

    I mean, up until that point of the early 80's the heaviest stuff was what, Zeppelin, Sabbath, and everything else we consider to be classic rock now; but thrash and what would become metal was brand new so you could do whatever you wanted to and say, "yeah, well, it's our take on it" and that'd be the end of it. Nowadays if you did that, you're not considered thrash in the traditional sense, since there's a lot of meandering that snobs would say doesn't fit the criteria, but back then there was no criteria to fit in because they were literally creating it.
    so does that mean they were progressive rock then?

  7. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Drucifer View Post
    They qualify in my book as a prog band and not just because of MoP and Justice, but because they've progressed (or as some would say, regressed) as a band their entire career. Dream Theater is a band that writes progressive music, but does not progress, IMO....as where Metallica is a progressive band that sometimes writes progressive music and other times writes...."Ain't My Bitch".
    If a band "progressing" defines a band as "prog," then you'd have to classify things that are the polar opposite of prog rock or prog metal as "prog" simply because they've "progressed." For example, a super simplistic punk rock band that starts out playing 1 minute songs with only 3 chords at 230bpm, but nowadays plays 4-5 minute long songs with less simplistic song structures at 150bpm. They've definitely "progressed," but you certainly wouldn't consider them "progressive."

    "What's this rap song you're listening to?" "It's not rap. It's prog." "What's this poppy house song you're listening to?" "It's not house. It's prog." "What's this jazz band you're listening to?" "It's not jazz. It's prog." "What's this grunge band you're listening to?" "It's not grunge. It's prog." In other words, if developing a genre or establishing a genre meant "prog," then the word "prog" would become entirely meaningless.

  8. #14


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    They had prog tendencies, but I wouldn't call them a prog band. It's kind of as odd, because they were helping invent the genre as they made these albums so you can't really say they were "progressing" thrash, because there was barely thrash to begin with. On the other hand, it's hard to listen to stuff like The Call of Ktulu and Orion and not feel there's at least some prog tendencies going on there, you know?
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  9. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by Naren View Post
    If a band "progressing" defines a band as "prog," then you'd have to classify things that are the polar opposite of prog rock or prog metal as "prog" simply because they've "progressed." For example, a super simplistic punk rock band that starts out playing 1 minute songs with only 3 chords at 230bpm, but nowadays plays 4-5 minute long songs with less simplistic song structures at 150bpm. They've definitely "progressed," but you certainly wouldn't consider them "progressive."

    "What's this rap song you're listening to?" "It's not rap. It's prog." "What's this poppy house song you're listening to?" "It's not house. It's prog." "What's this jazz band you're listening to?" "It's not jazz. It's prog." "What's this grunge band you're listening to?" "It's not grunge. It's prog." In other words, if developing a genre or establishing a genre meant "prog," then the word "prog" would become entirely meaningless.
    His argument isn't without merit. Progressive music is obviously primarily referring to something at least in the orbit of rock, and Metallica is at least SOME kind of rock, so an evolving sound and progressing the genre of rock (whether that's through influencing others or done internally as a band) at least partially ticks that box.

    I always thought of prog as kinda the metal/rock version of what jazz did to rhythm & blues. That's to say, having the accepted standard as a base (that's where your initial audience and form come from) and experimenting by bringing in other elements, maybe influences from other genres or less 'obvious' progressions, beats/time signatures and instruments. Either your experimentation is just weird/interesting and 'that's that', or it fits enough that somebody runs with it and eventually it BECOMES part of the wider vision for the genre. Or I guess the third option is that it becomes a genre all it's own; which both of them did.

  10. #16


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    ^
    that's pretty much the more succinct version of what I was trying to say earlier.

    They definitely mark a progression of the genre, which I guess would just be a stream of "rock" since they were also defining "thrash" in that process

    edit: to address Naren though ... the term prog pretty much is a completely useless nomenclature at this point. Almost anything that isn't just verse, chorus, verse is labelled as "prog" now. Looking at you djentcore....

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