Is Metallica prog? - Page 3
Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 17 to 24 of 58

Thread: Is Metallica prog?

  1. #17


    Join Date: Oct 2008
    Location: Tokyo
    ME: Ibanez RGIXL7-ABL
    MB: Ibanez SR505
    Rig: Fractal Audio AX8

    iTrader: 0

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    His argument isn't without merit. Progressive music is obviously primarily referring to something at least in the orbit of rock, and Metallica is at least SOME kind of rock, so an evolving sound and progressing the genre of rock (whether that's through influencing others or done internally as a band) at least partially ticks that box.

    I always thought of prog as kinda the metal/rock version of what jazz did to rhythm & blues. That's to say, having the accepted standard as a base (that's where your initial audience and form come from) and experimenting by bringing in other elements, maybe influences from other genres or less 'obvious' progressions, beats/time signatures and instruments. Either your experimentation is just weird/interesting and 'that's that', or it fits enough that somebody runs with it and eventually it BECOMES part of the wider vision for the genre. Or I guess the third option is that it becomes a genre all it's own; which both of them did.
    Oh, I don't think anyone's arguing that Metallica never had any elements of prog. And Justice for All clearly had the most prog elements of any of their albums and you can find some other elements of prog on Master of Puppets, but Metallica itself is not a prog band.

    And although genres are rarely completely clear cut, the elements commonly associated with progressive rock/metal/etc. usually will put a band into one of the following modern genres: "progressive X", "experimental X", or "avant-garde X", sometimes falling into all three.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKindred View Post
    edit: to address Naren though ... the term prog pretty much is a completely useless nomenclature at this point. Almost anything that isn't just verse, chorus, verse is labelled as "prog" now. Looking at you djentcore....
    That's just demonstrably wrong. MOST metal doesn't follow a verse, chorus, verse order. That would make all black metal, death metal, thrash, grindcore, metalcore, industrial metal, and on and on "prog."

    Whereas "djent" is just a term given for a type of progressive metal. I mean, what people call "djent" fits every definition of "progressive" imaginable. Has odd time signatures, syncopation, polyrhythms, uses odd keys, heavily influenced by jazz, oftentimes uses non-typical instruments (such as saxophones), implements elements from a wide range of other genres (such as pop, dubstep, classical, jazz, R&B, etc.), has unconventional song structures (oftentimes changing drastically), and oftentimes has very long song lengths. And on and on and on.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    MetalGuitarist.org
    Advertisements
     

  3. #18


    Join Date: Dec 2011
    Location: vancouver, bc

    iTrader: 2 (100%)

    Quote Originally Posted by Naren View Post
    That's just demonstrably wrong. MOST metal doesn't follow a verse, chorus, verse order. That would make all black metal, death metal, thrash, grindcore, metalcore, industrial metal, and on and on "prog."

    Whereas "djent" is just a term given for a type of progressive metal. I mean, what people call "djent" fits every definition of "progressive" imaginable. Has odd time signatures, syncopation, polyrhythms, uses odd keys, heavily influenced by jazz, oftentimes uses non-typical instruments (such as saxophones), implements elements from a wide range of other genres (such as pop, dubstep, classical, jazz, R&B, etc.), has unconventional song structures (oftentimes changing drastically), and oftentimes has very long song lengths. And on and on and on.
    exactly. thank you for solidifying my point.

    the term "prog" gets tossed around and used so freely, that it has no merit as an accurate descriptor in modern music anymore.
    Spoiler
    Jesus dies at the end....

  4. #19


    Join Date: Oct 2008
    Location: Tokyo
    ME: Ibanez RGIXL7-ABL
    MB: Ibanez SR505
    Rig: Fractal Audio AX8

    iTrader: 0

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKindred View Post
    exactly. thank you for solidifying my point.

    the term "prog" gets tossed around and used so freely, that it has no merit as an accurate descriptor in modern music anymore.
    I couldn't possibly disagree with that post more (or any of your previous posts in this thread).

    If you think "prog" has no merit, then neither does "metal," "punk," "rap," "jazz," or any other genre for that matter. I mean, my favorite genre is "progressive metal." It's not just a random term that has no meaning. If it was an amorphous term that had no actual characteristics and could be used to describe anything, then theoretically me saying "I like prog" would mean "I like everything." Prog, as a genre, is something that can't gain widespread popularity because it specifically goes against what's the norm.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    MetalGuitarist.org
    Advertisements
     

  6. #20


    Join Date: Jul 2010
    Location: Zombieland
    ME: Ibanez S 540 Ltd
    Rig: Bugera 333XL Infinium

    iTrader: 0

    I don't think so..I mean, yeah they had elements that could be called progressive, but they were'nt ever thought of as anything but a damn good thrash band back in the day. And that's not to say that there were'nt "progressive thrash" bands around at the time, because there were..Mekong Delta, Anacrusis, Voivod, Toxik, Psychotic Waltz etc..it was an actual sub-genre..as was "tech-thrash" (Watchtower, Sadus, Deathrow, etc..) which was another sub-genre

    Technically, they did have progressive elements, but that was'nt enough to classify them as progressive thrash...at least not back then.

  7. #21


    Join Date: Jul 2017
    Location: San Diego
    ME: LEF Customs EXP
    MB: LTD B-5E
    Rig: VH-140C/Mesa Mark III

    iTrader: 0

    I feel like this is like calling the opening to Shortest Straw is kinda like early djent.
    Gravespell - Frostcrown (Melodic Black/Death Metal)
    Personal SoundCloud

  8. #22


    Join Date: Sep 2008
    Location: Kitchen/Laundry Room
    ME: Ironing Board
    MA: Laundry Mangle
    MB: Cascade Dish Detergent
    Rig: Washing Machine

    iTrader: 2 (100%)

    I'm on the record as having called some Metallica riffs 'djenty', so there's that.
    Argbadh - RHLC©

  9. #23


    Join Date: Sep 2008
    Location: Somerville, Ma
    ME: Suhr Modern 7
    MA: Martin MC16-GTE
    MB: Squier 5 string P-bass
    Rig: Mark V

    iTrader: 5 (100%)

    You know, my first reaction was, "Of course not, they're thrash. Duh." But, the more I think of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    His argument isn't without merit. Progressive music is obviously primarily referring to something at least in the orbit of rock, and Metallica is at least SOME kind of rock, so an evolving sound and progressing the genre of rock (whether that's through influencing others or done internally as a band) at least partially ticks that box.

    I always thought of prog as kinda the metal/rock version of what jazz did to rhythm & blues. That's to say, having the accepted standard as a base (that's where your initial audience and form come from) and experimenting by bringing in other elements, maybe influences from other genres or less 'obvious' progressions, beats/time signatures and instruments. Either your experimentation is just weird/interesting and 'that's that', or it fits enough that somebody runs with it and eventually it BECOMES part of the wider vision for the genre. Or I guess the third option is that it becomes a genre all it's own; which both of them did.
    I mean, theres a lot to this. Metallica was one of the innovators of thrash, sure, but they also pretty clearly didn't JUST limit themselves to thrash, and a lot of what they incorporated isn't necessarily strictly metal, either. If we loosely define "prog" as taking rock or metal forward beyond what it is today, by incorporating outside influences or more complex musical structures, etc... Then yeah, for a thrash band, Metallica definitely has some proggy tendencies. Or did, at least, right up until that tragic bus accident where the whole band died immediately after recording the Black album.

    Naren, I think the problem with your argument is that you're thinking about it with respect to a single band staying within one genre. If a punk band goes from simple 1 minute songs at 230 to slightly more complicated 4-5 minute songs at 150, then yeah, it's tough to call them prog. But, if those 4-5 minute songs have verses in 7/4 and are incorporating Hungarian folk elements and instrumentation, then sure, maybe there's an argument to consider them prog. Idunno. I think you're reducing what's being said here a little TOO far.
    "They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are a bit dicier." - David Foster Wallace

  10. #24


    Join Date: Sep 2008
    Location: Somerville, Ma
    ME: Suhr Modern 7
    MA: Martin MC16-GTE
    MB: Squier 5 string P-bass
    Rig: Mark V

    iTrader: 5 (100%)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKindred View Post
    edit: to address Naren though ... the term prog pretty much is a completely useless nomenclature at this point. Almost anything that isn't just verse, chorus, verse is labelled as "prog" now. Looking at you djentcore....
    Evidently, "prog" is now the new way to say "djent" over at /7/. I'm not at all happy about this, but then again Periphery actually have been getting a little more proggy of late, so who knows.

Similar Threads

  1. Awesome prog 7 string prog band Kadinja
    By Samer in forum General Music Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-04-2014, 10:57 PM
  2. A mix I did for prog metal band Son of Science
    By Mattayus in forum Music: Recording Studio
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-17-2009, 09:43 PM
  3. Pyramid Theorem - Cool Prog-Metal Band
    By eleven59 in forum General Music Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-25-2009, 01:27 PM
  4. San Diego Prog-Rock Masters ASTRA To Issue Debut Album
    By Metal-Bot in forum Metal News Feeds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-12-2009, 10:40 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-13-2009, 03:10 PM

Tags for this Thread


Fractal Audio Systems  Shred Training  Angel Vivaldi
Bowes Guitarworks  NumbSkull Audio Production



VigLink badge