WALK - What Makes This Song Great? - Page 7
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Thread: WALK - What Makes This Song Great?

  1. #49


    Join Date: Oct 2008
    Location: NJ
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    I had more respect for my favorite bands before the internet. Some things are better left in mystery.

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  3. #50


    Join Date: Feb 2010
    Location: Laramie, Wyoming
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    I used to own this exact shirt when I was like 16. Besides a Celtic Frost "To Mega Therion" shirt, it's the only shirt my mom ever threw away.



    I wore it exactly once, when my AP physics class was touring INL on an all day field trip. Everyone else was wearing collared shirts and ties.

    So yeah, if you think the security is tight at our nations top nuclear laboratories it's really not.

    In retrospect, I am surprised they didn't have a policy for banning people wearing confederate flag Pantera shirts from getting close to the advanced reactor core they have to keep submerged in a huge tank of water with all the fucking sick cherenkov radiation glowing everywhere so it doesn't kill people.

    You would think any functional government would have a rule about not letting people wearing confederate flag Pantera shirts into secure nuclear facilities, but they don't.

  4. #51


    Join Date: Sep 2008
    Location: Boston, MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by schreckmusic View Post
    I had more respect for my favorite bands before the internet. Some things are better left in mystery.
    Yep. Jeff Hanneman comes to mind.

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  6. #52


    Join Date: Nov 2011
    Location: Portugal

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    Yeah the internet (or lets say the vast amount of info available) made the Light stop shining on some of our Idols, being it Musicians or Actors.

  7. #53


    Join Date: Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Yep. Jeff Hanneman comes to mind.
    I'm not sure you can blame the internet for decades of metal fans inability to apply "if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck" logic to Jeff "Totally Not a Nazi" Hanneman.

    The evidence is all highly circumstantial.

    All of us have been in that spot, you spec a custom guitar, it shows up with SS rune inlays. Honest mistake. Could happen to anybody.

    You spec a second custom, and it shows up with Deaths Head inlays. Statistically unlikely the same mistake would happen twice, but not impossible.

    It was only when the third and fourth custom guitars came out with Nazi symbols for inlays that the evidence started looking really bad. And then people realized that, "hey, he had been doing this nazi shit for years before the inlays and nobody noticed! In retrospect isn't it somewhat suspicious that he also wrote a lot of songs about Nazis and named the fanclub 'Slaytanic Wehrmacht'?"



    Honestly, the most surprising part of this isn't that an American ended up being a Nazi. It's that ESP was OK producing multiple guitars with overt nazi imagery, some of which were sold as mass produced signatures.

    You would think most reputable shops probably have an unspoken policy that "you can't spec nazi symbols for your inlays", but apparently ESP doesn't. That seems so obvious that it doesn't even have to be a written rule.

  8. #54


    Join Date: Oct 2013
    Location: Brit in Munich, Germany
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    I was very disappointed in the video. I thought the point of Beato's series was to explain why the song was great. You know, in like, music theory terms and stuff. There was hardly any of that. But as Drew states, this song is a great opportunity to explore what it means to groove in metal:

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Are you sure it's the tone that makes it sound so heavy, or the fact the performance grooves like a motherfucker, and locks into the bass and drums so well? I always thought his guitar sound was pretty shrill, which doesn't really scream "heavy" to me.
    So where was the analysis of where each member of the "rhythm section" played what on the beat and why doing that makes the song crush? All that interplay! He could also have explored the "evil" harmonic content, though that's not really the feature in this song.

    Of course Beato had to do a bit on the solo, yet he says nothing about how Dime got to sound the way he did: the "greasy" feel. Playing with dirty intonation/compound bends to create a "smear" of sound. Drawing influences from "southern" players to go along with the EVH chops he'd picked up and the "out" sounds from Slayer.

    I've seen Beato present detail in an interesting and accessible way before. But here he just says [paraphrased] "Bro! Check out how awesome this bit sounds, bro!" "Bro! Check out this awesome clip from the masters/stems one of my bros sent me, bro!" It's almost like he dumbed the presentation down to the level of the perceived audience likely to click this vid.

    Or is it just that now he only has a short time to put together each vid because he has to post daily to generate enough revenue (direct and indirect, books, "club", whatnot) to feed his family?

    Still: I am disappoint.

    Other, heavier stuff in this thread:

    I'm currently still happy to enjoy Pantera as boneheaded posturing because the musicianship (yes, I'm including Phil in that) "moves my ass". It's a different sort of tailfeather shakin' to good funk/thrash, but it still makes me shake mine.

    I was a huge fan of the Dukes of Hazard as a tiny kid, fascinated by how the doors on the car didn't open and they had to jump in through the windows. That made a big impression. As did the horn, soundalikes of which proliferated (illegally) in my northern English hometown.

    Then I see the "cool graphic from the car" on the awesomely shaped guitars of the latest guitarist I'm getting into in the early 90s. He had it on the posters on my bedroom walls, and played it at Ozzfest 1998 in Milton Keynes Bowl. I could so easily have bought a Dime guitar with that on it and played it live without having any idea that it was seen by some/many as having the equivalent of a swastika emblazoned. I could have bought a T-shirt with that flag on as Pantera merch and worn it everywhere I went, including Dachau in 1999, coincidentally now just up the road from where I live. Blows my mind.

    To date, I'm quite happy to separate art from politics, but given the influence Pantera had on me, this has become a bit of a raw nerve. Can you tell? Is it just "good if it sounds good", or does good music become bad if there is malice toward the innocent in the lyrics? Doesn't help that Zakk Wylde (particularly on the first two albums he did with Ozzy and on Pride and Glory/Book Of Shadows) was in my top few guitarists through all those years too. There's that graphic on a guitar again. The bassist in my first band had "that flag" sewn into the bottom of his jeans to make bell bottoms a bit like Zakk's, too.

    Having lived in Germany for years, I wonder if I can access a resolution to my inner conflict through the parallel: Are the Böhse Onkelz now entirely reformed characters? The fans they attract certainly aren't. The band is almost a "dog whistle" in today's parlance. The scum I saw on public transport when they had their early 2000's festival in Frankfurt are testament to that. Repellent. Don't like the music or playing, either. But then, I'd contend that the Onkelz knew exactly what they were doing, even if they "were young" (their defence) when they did it. So the parallel doesn't work.

    I find it hard to believe that successful musicians who have "done their time" playing out in the mass market can be homophobic/racist. If one intermingles with enough other humans, one sees so much that "tolerance" is the only sensible path, surely? But Anselmo has done his best to prove otherwise to me. Chris' 2ct opinion is rife in my experience, and we can't now just sober DD up long enough to ask him how he really feels.

    5FDP suck, incidentally. So I can wholly identify with finding Bro Metal really stupid.

    Coming up next post: how I feel now about singing along to all those 80's Ice Cube/Ice T/NWA/2 Live Crew tracks with all the lyrics...

    NOT!

    TL:DR Poorly travelled Limey here doesn't understand the US at all but loves some of its music passionately.
    Last edited by Dominic; 07-02-2019 at 05:02 PM. Reason: smiley fail

  9. #55


    Join Date: Oct 2013
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    I'd not want to attempt to be an apologist for Hanneman, but Lemmy was similarly keen on the imagery, and I felt he just thought it looked cool; how could Lemmy have been racist/homophobic? I didn't get the impression Hanneman got beyond finding scary, evil shit and being attracted to it. There's always a fascination with the extreme. Like anyone into metal, he must have been used to lots of societal pushback, and he wanted to push society back himself, but harder. I don't think the holocaust was as "real" to the musicians of the 80s as it is to us now. I was pretty horrified when in my late 20s I finally read The Dirt passage on them pretending the oven in their shitty apartment was a gas chamber and executing roaches. Stupid japes they didn't understand? Really stupid. Like doing speedballs, probably. Those guys needed an intervention, and so did Hannemann. But would he have been able to process it and understand the wrong in the symbols he chose for those guitars? Is it the case that collecting memorabilia/artifacts is one thing, where further disseminating the "symbols of hate" via signature guitars is another? What did those symbols mean to him? Were they just a huge middle finger raised to broader society? Or did he mean to raise that finger to the people targeted by those who most famously used them?

    TLDR: Limey still not sure if Lemmy and Hanneman are ducks.

  10. #56


    Join Date: Feb 2013
    Location: Seattle, WA
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    Lemmy went on record explaining his war memorabilia fascination. To paraphrase, it was basically the fact that his generation (born in the 40's) grew up with war vets as teachers and other positions of authority. His birth-father was an RAF vet who abandoned the family when he was young. Kids had to march to class, get inspected in their uniforms, and endure other forms of drill-sergeant like parenting techniques from adults. Like Ozzy, he talked about playing in bombed out buildings as a kid, so the effects of war and its atrocities were all around him, growing up. According to him, it was more of a respect for the enemy than an approval of the ideology. He also mentioned that he had a slew of black girlfriends in his day...as a teenager he even knocked up his high-school sweetheart (a young black woman) but social/racial tensions between the families and the fact that it was a teenage pregnancy drove them apart. Do I think he's cool for wearing a modified SS officer cap and driving a Panzer around a field? No, but at least Lemmy has a track record to prove that he's not secretly racist. I don't think guys like Hanneman and Anselmo could say the same.

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