Apparently In Flames re-recorded Clayman... - Page 3
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Thread: Apparently In Flames re-recorded Clayman...

  1. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg McCoy View Post
    Clayman is In Flames Black Album.

    Clayman is at least like, 25-30 BPM slower per song than their best stuff. It's the quintessential "trying to appeal to a broader audience by making things more mid tempo point in our career" type album.
    One might also call that the "trying to have a music career that lets me pay my mortgage" approach.

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  3. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post

    This is fucking cool! I have never listened to In Flames that much before. Or at least I was exposed to songs that I did not like at the time and never paid attention to them.

  4. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg McCoy View Post
    Clayman is In Flames Black Album.

    Clayman is at least like, 25-30 BPM slower per song than their best stuff. It's the quintessential "trying to appeal to a broader audience by making things more mid tempo point in our career" type album.
    According to a quick google the average tempo of Clayman is a whopping 6 bpm slower than Whoracle.
    "How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more."
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  6. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    One might also call that the "trying to have a music career that lets me pay my mortgage" approach.
    They're from one of those socialist Scandinavian countries with jail cells that are roughly equivalent to an American Best Western, so that's not an excuse.

    They don't even have mortgages in communist countries.

    Only Americans can play the "my music started sucking because I needed health care" card.


  7. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus View Post
    According to a quick google the average tempo of Clayman is a whopping 6 bpm slower than Whoracle.
    Without getting into the whole, "BPM isn't an indicator of speed", I will point out that I know lots of people who consider a song I would think notate as 180 BPM as 90 BPM.

    But yeah, I saw that too, I actually didn't know there was a site that averaged BPMs for entire albums, cool stuff.

    I don't really consider it valid though. Since it's clear from their algorithmic mapping the rules aren't standard. And whether a song reads at 164 BPM or 82 BPM is a crapshoot. Cool idea for a site, but comparing albums like that is kind of inaccurate, since changing the 164 BPM song to 82 would throw off the average quite a bit and vice versa.



    It is dealing with a measurement that in many cases can be doubled or halved and still convey the same idea, so averaging it isn't that accurate of a comparison.

  8. #22


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    Anything with 16th note drumming is definitely sort of up in the air. It complicates BPM conventions more than other genres.

    There are plenty of songs that someone might map as 220 BPM that someone else from the more conventional "BPM is the pulse of the song, just because there is one section with much smaller subdivisions going on in the drumming doesn't change the pulse of the song" would map as 110.

    The are shit tons of songs where, if there weren't any sixteenth notes being played on the bass drum, would be more accurately mapped as half the BPM people want to call it.

    Interesting stuff actually. I know everyone does it their own way. There are plenty of songs that are definitely quite slow that have a bit of blasting type stuff here and there that are notated at a really high looking BPM to avoid having to notate the drum parts with 32nd notes.

  9. #23


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    The fastest song on Whoracle on that site is the blazing blast-beat filled Jester's Script Transfigured at 179 bpm, while Clayman's fastest is the mid-tempo title track Clayman at 175 bpm.

    Both albums are pretty much the same tempo - and the tempos on songs like Clayman, Swim, Brush the Dust Away is just as quick as The Hive, Episode 666 etc. It's not like Whoracle or The Jester Race are super fast - in fact I'd call most of In Flames stuff mid tempo.

  10. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus View Post
    The fastest song on Whoracle on that site is the blazing speed metal classic Jester's Script Transfigured at 179 bpm, while Clayman's fastest is the mid-tempo title track Clayman at 175 bpm.

    Both albums are pretty much the same tempo - and the tempos on songs like Clayman, Swim, Brush the Dust Away is just as quick as The Hive, Episode 666 etc. It's not like Whoracle or The Jester Race are super fast - in fact I'd call most of In Flames stuff mid tempo.
    It's an interesting can of worms, there are definitely a variety of ways people weight it to give a numeric approximation of how fast a track feels.

    In general, most people I've seen on the notation side will look at two tracks and look at the BPM first, but then you also have to consider intricacies like "triplet feel" and "swung vs. straight".

    What people consider fast is definitely subjective. Some of the bands people call Speed Metal I don't consider fast at all. It's all sort of relativistic. How the individual parts are moving in relation to one another. Sort of the sonic version of all the thought experiments with beams of light and moving trains and all that.

    There are definitely loads of songs where if you hear a part in isolation it can sound slow, but when you hear how it's moving relative to other parts, usually the drumming, it makes for quite a fast feel.

    Interesting discussion about theory and notation for sure. There is no universal definition for what is considered "fast" though.

    IMO, a track like Jotun is significantly faster than their later stuff, but since it all depends on perception, some might disagree.

    It's not actually possible to say one track is faster than another. Because fast is a hard to pin down concept that is affected by a ton of things. I think Whoracle is a much speedier feeling album, but others might disagree for sure.

    It's a sum total type thing. I don't think there is such a thing as a "fast" part. Whenever I program drums to my own stuff, it's always incredible how the same guitar part can sound incredibly fast or slow when taken with the drum part behind it. There is definitely a lot of really intricate interplay that deals with the relativity between different sonic elements.

    I think the way the elements relate to one another in the earlier stuff makes for "faster" sounding music, but since things like whether a snare is on the 2 and 4, or the more urgent feel of a snare on the 1 and 3 can affect the perception of how fast something feels, it's up for debate.

    There are plenty of pieces where none of the parts alone are fast, but due to manipulating the rhythmic pulse to provide a sense of urgency it creates the feeling of a shit ton of speed. You can definitely make a track feel like it is "speeding up" from switching to snares on 2 and 4 to snares on 1 and 3, that's one of the oldest ones in the book.

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