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Distortion from Amp or Pedal?

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#1 · (Edited)
Distortion from Amp or Pedal... NOW A WHICH HEAD THREAD?

New question in this thread starting on page 6, date 7-18-2019

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All opinions are welcome. Please share any similar experiences and solutions.

I recently purchased a very inexpensive head and cabinet second hand and can't stand the sound of the distortion, even with an OD pedal.

Should I buy an expensive head that has good distortion or a distortion pedal?

Thanks in advance.
 
#6 ·
All opinions are welcome. Please share any similar experiences and solutions.

I recently purchased a very inexpensive head and cabinet second hand and can't stand the sound of the distortion, even with an OD pedal.

Should I buy an expensive head that has good distortion or a distortion pedal?

Thanks in advance.
Best distortion is amp distortion. Every pedal out there is emulating a head. If cost is an issue, look into the Jet City amps. Otherwise for $500ish you should easily find a Peavey 5150 / 6505 that will sound awesome.
 
#36 ·
This has been my experience as well, but the one exception was the Damage Control Solid Metal pedal. It was killer through a Tech21 TM60 solid state amp. I sold them both after I got a 3120 from Peavey.
You can get a used Peavey 3120 for less than the amps listed above. This is a photo of the pedal, which is no longer being made.

 
#8 ·
No pedal is going to make a poor amp sound better. A good amp is a good amp, and pedals should only be thought of as embellishments on the existing tone. Invest in the amp, use pedals to taste.

Having said that, my general school of thought is to not rely 100% on amp distortion. I do tend to prefer to use an overdrive out front, with hot pickups. Not crazy hot, but definitely in the high output category. This allows the amp to back off a bit, not work too hard and get congested, and it lets you get to the same level of gain and saturation whilst staying tight.
 
#10 ·
It depends on what you are going for to be honest. I used to run my Boss DS-1 into my old ashdown fallen angel and that killed 100 times more than that amp did by itself :lol: If you're more interested in a variety of sounds Budda's suggestion is probably a good one. If you just want hard rock and metal tones then an amp with huge distortion is probably the best bet.
 
#13 ·
That's the thing, sometimes budget really is a deciding factor. It's easy to tell someone to 'just keep saving to get something better' but sometimes it's not always possible. In a lot of cases, it's basically make the best of what you have. Like others have said, if it has a decent clean channel and enough volume to keep up in a band situation, pedals these days are most definitely a viable option.

Between the AMT, Mooer, Friedman, Wampler, etc... it's a lot easier now to get really decent medium/high gain tones without having to spend a ton of cash.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I appreciate all of the replies - good info. I always learn a lot from you guys.

After looking at several videos online, I'm thinking of purchasing a Peavey 6505 head. There is a used one near me. I have never owned a tube amp before. Anything I need to be aware of when buying a used tube head?

I'm looking for a head or amp that will be good for playing metal. Something pretty chunky. It will need to be enough to play with a band live.
 
#16 ·
6505s are a metal staple. If you can buy it and have a cab or are buying a cab, you are doing well. Those amps are used the world over.

Things to remember:
- match the ohms on the amp to that of the cab. Most cabs are 16 or 8 ohm, some are 4. I think 6505 can run all 3.
- do NOT turn it on with no load (cab, attenuator, dummy load) attached. You will blow it up.
- tube maintenance is required. Tubes eventually need replacing, power tubes more than preamp tubes. Lots of info on this online.
 
#20 ·
For really heavy stuff a 5150/6505 sounds good at like half way in between 0 and 1 which is definitely not quiet but not so loud that people are going to be banging on your door telling you to turn it down :lol: At 2 it really starts kicking but then it's super loud already lol. Anyway that amp is not really one you need an attenuator for imo.
 
#21 ·
Not reading all the replies to see where this thread stands right now, but basically my stance is "Whatever sounds good". You can't make generalizations.

I was "amp distortion is the only realistic choice for metal" for a long fucking time. But I know a lot of people who sound great with pedals into a clean channel. Especially with where the boutique pedal industry stands now, pedal distortion is an increasingly viable choice.

Either can sound really good or like shit. Depends on a huge amount of factors.
 
#26 ·
Not reading all the replies to see where this thread stands right now, but basically my stance is "Whatever sounds good". You can't make generalizations.

I was "amp distortion is the only realistic choice for metal" for a long fucking time. But I know a lot of people who sound great with pedals into a clean channel. Especially with where the boutique pedal industry stands now, pedal distortion is an increasingly viable choice.

Either can sound really good or like shit. Depends on a huge amount of factors.
What's your current rig? Budget?

I would generally try an amp distortion centric set up first.

The boutique types also prefer the phrase "high gain tones" to "distortion". The history of the term "distortion" implies it being undesirable, or a novelty effect. Most heads prefer to advertise themselves as possessing dedicated "high gain" channels if you are talking about distortion in the context of metal.
I had purchased a Randall RX120RH head and (2) 300 watt Behringer cabs.

I also purchased the following pedals:

- Boss OD-3

- MXR 10 EQ

- Zuul Noise Gate

The pedals each did a lot to improve the overall sound, but I couldn't get that ChunkY E Power Chord. Lead sounded fine, but rhythm was terrible and the more I played it, the more frustrated I became. I think a distortion pedal would work, but in the end I'll be halfway to the cost of a new head (understanding I'll still need one good cab also). I'm going to invest in a better head following the Buy Once, Cry Once mentality.

I really appreciate your replies. I've done a lot of research and have come to agree with what you stated.

Thanks again!
 
#22 ·
Should I buy an expensive head that has good distortion or a distortion pedal?
What's your current rig? Budget?

I would generally try an amp distortion centric set up first.

The boutique types also prefer the phrase "high gain tones" to "distortion". The history of the term "distortion" implies it being undesirable, or a novelty effect. Most heads prefer to advertise themselves as possessing dedicated "high gain" channels if you are talking about distortion in the context of metal.
 
#25 ·
I also haven't gone over the entire thread, but just yesterday I was fucking around with my XXX and the TS-9 clone I got from Joyo for $30. I think I found one of my all-time favorite tones in the Crunch channel with the gain on 3.5 and using the Vintage Drive for the rest of the balls. I could still roll the volume back and get that Hendrix/SRV kinda dirty clean sound, but opened up it was like a hot-rodded JCM800. That mix is DEFINITELY going to get some use.
 
#28 ·
I PULLED THE TRIGGER and bought the used 6505+. It's in great condition, but haven't used it yet... I've never owned a tube head/amp so I figured I'd better read the manual first.

I noticed there are Power/On & Stand By/On switches. I have read and heard that tube amps have these and need time to warm up while some say that is a myth. I have no idea, so I guess I'll see what the manual says?

I may never need anything this loud, but it looks cool...:metal:

I know/have been advised of the following:

- Match Ohms (the amp has 16/8/4 settings and the cab is 16 Ohm mono)

- Ensure the amp is turned down before turning on

- Make sure there is a load on the amp before turning on

- Use a speaker cord (not an instrument cord) from the amp to the cab

Anything else I need to be aware of?

Thank you for all of the replies!
 
#29 ·
You don't need the amp turned down before you fully power up, but it does stop you from scaring yourself if you forget where it was before :lol:.

You need less gain than you think - especially for live. Yeah it will sound fun with the gain cranked up at home, but live it doesn't really help.

Standard 5150/6505 settings for metal are EQ at 6, resonance and presence to taste. The clean and crunch share that first EQ, but IMO 6 across the board works for both settings.
 
#30 ·
Oh, snap. I just went back and re-read the OP and came in to offer some EQ advice, but I think you'll have things figured out shortly!

Congrats on the new amp and enjoy!

The volume on tube amps is drastically different than solid state. You're quickly going to realize why SS amps are generally looked at as weak in comparison to a tube amp. While tube amps generally sound slightly better once the tubes get warmed up, it's really not a HUGE deal to turn the amp on right away and start playing. On my XXX head, I just notice a slight difference in the way the distortion reacts once it's good and warmed up.
 
#33 ·
I had no idea how loud this amp would be... This 6505+ will be perfect.

I also have a Randall RG100CS 2X12 that sounds good and is great for bedroom stuff (playing along to backing tracks, etc.). I've always struggled with not having quite enough volume and decent sound when playing with a band.

Thanks for the reply.
 
#48 · (Edited)
After a few months of comparing the 6505+ to my Randall solid state combo, I've found that I prefer the Randall by far and really don't like the sound of the 6505+. When I hear everyone play the 6505+ on youtube, etc, it sounds great, but mine doesn't.

I'm playing the 6505+ through Behringer BG412S 4X12 cabinets. Is the cab making a good head sound bad or do I just like Randall distortion or both?

I know it may be a question where the answer is preference based... but all feedback is welcomed.

If these cabs suck, what are some recommendations that I can find used?


Thanks
 
#49 ·
Not everybody likes every amp, I'm sure some people would say try a different cab but you may just not like the amp anyway. Youtube won't give you a really good feeling for the amp anyway imo. If you got any stores near you take your head over there and ask to try out a few cabs :yesway:
 
#53 · (Edited)
I just unplugged the celestion speakers in my Randall combo and plugged the Behringer cabinet into the combo. It had a similar bad sound as the 6505+.

Is there a way I can play my 6505+ through the Celestion speakers in the Randall combo without removing the speakers (disable the amp and use the combo as a cab)?
 
#61 ·
I do not overdrive with my amp. He who overdrives with his amp has forgotten the face of his father. I overdrive with my heart.
 
#58 ·
Pop two of them into something like one (or 2 like me) these, good price and are good oversized sealed back cabs on the cheap. For a 4x12 keep your eye out for Carvin Legacys you can get them for less than the speakers cost, the one I got was almost brand new. Later on I robbed its V30s but I keep it just in case I want to go back to a 4x12.

https://reverb.com/item/566503-2x12-guitar-speaker-cab-empty-212-cabinet-new-12-tolex
https://reverb.com/item/566502-12-guitar-speaker-cabinet-empty-2x12-cab-new-212-tolex

Mine.... pic shows they are not small, and they sound great with my V30s

Audio equipment Flooring Radio Metal Musical instrument
Rectangle Material property Gas Tints and shades Technology
 
#59 ·
Pop two of them into something like one (or 2 like me) these, good price and are good oversized sealed back cabs on the cheap. For a 4x12 keep your eye out for Carvin Legacys you can get them for less than the speakers cost, the one I got was almost brand new. Later on I robbed its V30s but I keep it just in case I want to go back to a 4x12.

https://reverb.com/item/566503-2x12-guitar-speaker-cab-empty-212-cabinet-new-12-tolex
https://reverb.com/item/566502-12-guitar-speaker-cabinet-empty-2x12-cab-new-212-tolex

Mine.... pic shows they are not small, and they sound great with my V30s

View attachment 26530 View attachment 26532
Thats actually not a bad route to go. You can get some deals on speakers on reverb as well. I just got 2 Celestion G12T-75s for like $130. Going to pair them with my v30s in my carvin cab.
 
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