Sorry for derailing the thread
Sorry for derailing the thread
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
ME: ESP LTD H-207
MA: Taylor 310
Rig: Mesa 20/20
Anyway, sounds like this thread has already climaxed and my chances of defusing the situation are near zero but what the hell...
Rocka; in replying to Drew at one point you actually type "of course that may change the sound....but that is playing style" or something to that effect. Dude, you are getting far too worked up in semantics. If an action changes the SOUND then by most peoples definitions it is also changing the TONE. Your definition of tone appears to be a little too stringent for the common vernacular. Your definition is not wrong per se it's just a little narrow.
Likewise, clinging to the "science" by admonishing anyone that won't subscribe to your blind test doesn't necessarily gain you any ground in the debate. Just because someone can't pick out a couple of 20-30 second clips at a level that exceeds random chance isn't the be all end all of the "proof" either. It simply means, to your point, that the differences are exceptionally subtle and don't matter THAT much. The vast majority of people couldn't pass a blind test between a Strat and a Les Paul but that doesn't mean the differences in sound don't exists. It simply means the measurement system sucks. You're arguing about the science but applying a subjective measure. Move to the realm of OBJECTIVE measurement and things start to change. You admitted that you've looked at these differences through what I can only assume is audio spectrum analysis and can see the subtle differences in the objective measure. Sure they are slight, but the cumulative effect of many subtle changes especially over a period of time will result in a human brain "compartmentalizing" those patterns. The "fingerprint" of that compartmentalization will be recalled by most as a "tone" of the sound.
Can I hear and consistently identify a 0.5db difference in intensity at the 3rd harmonic of a 1Khz signal? Hell no, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that over time it's presence wouldn't give me a headache, etc.
I'm with you all the way on the scientific method buddy, but measurement methods are also a fundamental part of science. Subjective ones rarely yield good consistent results.
I also agree with you that many people can't tell the difference between playing style and tone, but by your own post you admit playing style effects the SOUND. By most peoples definition that means it impacts "tone".
We're all musicians, still searching for our roots.
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Norman, OK
ME: Gibson Les Paul
Rig: Mesa/Boogie Lonestar
If I was just a regular happy person I probably wouldn't care. But I'm not a regular happy person.
[edited away a lot of shit]
However, yes, I was wrong, but I don't view that as a defeat, I view that as a victory, because I LEARNED something because I'm not close-minded.
I was IGNORANT in this thread, but I corrected myself by double-checking.
In Drews new thread, I'm going into this;
I was supposed to stop, but since I actually learned something, I'm OK.
I still lost my ability to sleep and got anxious, but it could have been worse.