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Struggling to find a good metal tone

5K views 25 replies 14 participants last post by  coombs77 
#1 ·
Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum and to the subject of electric sound. Some time ago I bought my first equipment.

Guitar: Ibanez GRG170DX
Amplifier: Marshall MG10
Distortion pedal: Boss MT-2 Metal Zone

I play with headphones on mainly not to piss off the neighbors. I would like to achieve various tones, something close to Slayer, Iron Maiden or Death. The problem is that it is what I'm achieving now sounds terrible. Even the simplest "power chord" gives this annoying buzz that hurts ears.

I thought it was related to the MT-2 settings but I tried all the gain, low, mids and those according to the instructions and always
sounds terrible. Got me so frustrated that I stopped practicing for few days :mad::pissed: In general, Metal Zone has a bad reputation on the web. On the other hand there are many recordings on youtube where people achieve satisfying (for me) sound. I can't get there no matter what I try. It seems to me that the problem must be cheap amplifier. I came to the conclusion that I approached it all wrong and since I play with headphones on anyway I don't need an amplifier but should buy a good audio interface for my laptop and play with amp sims and plugins to get the right tones.

Is my thinking correct? If yes, what audio interface and amp sims would be best? If not, what else can I try? :scratch:

:metal:
 
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#4 ·
Yeah, the amp's most likely the biggest problem. For cheap practice amps the Boss Katana has a good rep.

When it comes to interfaces, I've got a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 that is ok, although it has had some driver issues on Windows (no problems right now for me). I've got some tones that I'm quite satisfied with using free plugins, this for example uses Lepou Legion with Mattayus IR's that he shared here. I don't know a huge amount about recording, so someone skilled could probably get some fantastic tones out of this

 
#5 ·
I also always had a really negative impression of the Metal Zone, but I think a big part of that was because when I tried the Metal Zone (I never owned one because it was too buzzy, sounding like a swarm of bees to my ears), it was through either cheap amps or through amps that really weren't suited for it. I've heard lots of albums that were recorded with Metal Zones that sound great and there are some YouTubers (such as Ola) who have achieved REALLY good metal tones with Metal Zones, so it's definitely possible. In fact, I'm pretty sure I could get a great metal tone with one now, but it'd really depend on what other gear I'm pairing with it. I've been able to make pretty sweet metal tones for at least 15 years now, but the first few years that I played guitar, I always felt like I could never get enough gain and that I could never get the right vicious, cutting, brutal tones of punk, metal, hard rock, and so on that I loved. I just didn't know about noise gates, about clean boosts, about high-output pickups, about amp gain stages, and so on. In fact, it's kind of crazy to think back now on how much I struggled to get a good metal tone back then when it's pretty effortless now. Part of it is knowledge and part of it is experience, I think. But if you don't have the right gear, it's gonna be tough. Some amps just aren't suited for metal.

Although pickups, pedals, and amps are all factors, I think the amp is the biggest factor by far. I've seen people get great metal tones from a good metal amp even when using a guitar that's not suited for metal (for example, single-coil pickups or just low-output pickups). In fact, I use a boost on most amps, but there are some amps that can get a totally kickass metal tone without even using a boost. And then there are amps that even with a good distortion or overdrive pedal, no matter what you do, you can't get a good high gain tone.
 
#6 ·
I also always had a really negative impression of the Metal Zone, but I think a big part of that was because when I tried the Metal Zone (I never owned one because it was too buzzy, sounding like a swarm of bees to my ears), it was through either cheap amps or through amps that really weren't suited for it. I've heard lots of albums that were recorded with Metal Zones that sound great and there are some YouTubers (such as Ola) who have achieved REALLY good metal tones with Metal Zones, so it's definitely possible.
Yeah, I think Ola found that it works great as a preamp, but sucks in front, which was pretty interesting.
 
#8 ·
Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum and to the subject of electric sound. Some time ago I bought my first equipment.

Guitar: Ibanez GRG170DX
Amplifier: Marshall MG10
Distortion pedal: Boss MT-2 Metal Zone

I play with headphones on mainly not to piss off the neighbors. I would like to achieve various tones, something close to Slayer, Iron Maiden or Death. The problem is that it is what I'm achieving now sounds terrible. Even the simplest "power chord" gives this annoying buzz that hurts ears.

I thought it was related to the MT-2 settings but I tried all the gain, low, mids and those according to the instructions and always
sounds terrible. Got me so frustrated that I stopped practicing for few days :mad::pissed: In general, Metal Zone has a bad reputation on the web. On the other hand there are many recordings on youtube where people achieve satisfying (for me) sound. I can't get there no matter what I try. It seems to me that the problem must be cheap amplifier. I came to the conclusion that I approached it all wrong and since I play with headphones on anyway I don't need an amplifier but should buy a good audio interface for my laptop and play with amp sims and plugins to get the right tones.

Is my thinking correct? If yes, what audio interface and amp sims would be best? If not, what else can I try? :scratch:

:metal:
You know, with a bit of tweaking, you can get decent sounds out of less than ideal gear, try some of this:

- don't max gain
- don't max treb/bnass
- don't scoop mids

i'd start like this:
- set amp control to neutral, slowly brig up the gain untill you've got distortion. Not too much.
- Now, tweak the controls and avoid extreme settings.
- If you're going to use the metalzone, again, start neutral, gain OFF, level halfway.
- play around with the param eq knobs, and see how that interacts with your amp, find something that sounds nice
- maybe adjust the gain down on the amp as you bring the level up

One thing to remember is that a lot of "distorted" guitar on records has less distortion than you think it does. Also, the low end is most likely the bass guitar. Guitar sounds are actually guitar+bass sounds where they compliment each other. Remember the guitar is a mid focused instrument.

And remember, we all used bad/cheap gear at one point, it really helps in the long run as you learn how to dial something in and use it.

You'll get there, don't give up!
 
#25 · (Edited)
You know, with a bit of tweaking, you can get decent sounds out of less than ideal gear, try some of this:

- don't max gain
- don't max treb/bnass
- don't scoop mids
+1 on the above advice, the number one mistake from almost all beginner metal guitarists when using the Metal Zone (including myself, except I left the Mids at 12.00) and the bad sound it leads to is one of the main reasons why that pedal is then commonly disliked.

One thing to remember is that a lot of "distorted" guitar on records has less distortion than you think it does. Also, the low end is most likely the bass guitar. Guitar sounds are actually guitar+bass sounds where they compliment each other. Remember the guitar is a mid focused instrument.
+1 on that too, people would be surprised at how thin guitar tracks sound on their own if separated from bass and kick drum tracks in the mix on pro-level metal recordings.
 
#9 ·
Welcome to the boards. You definitely came to the right place for help - there's a ton of cats on here with decades and decades of combined knowledge.

I used to run a Marshall/Boss/Ibanez combo and swore by it (that's what I'm running in my avatar pic, actually - granted it's a JCM900 full stack). If you get the opportunity, I'd swap the Metalzone for an SD-1 or OD-2, both seem to play nicer with Marshalls than the MT-2. Another thing to consider is the pickups. If they're stock INF pickups they're going to sound thin no matter what you do. By just replacing the bridge one with a Duncan Distortion or Dimarzio Super Distortion (or better yet, an Elysian Hades Trident II ceramic bridge pickup) you'll hear a huge difference.

What used to work for me was to barely crank the amp gain and drive it with the OD2. I found trying to push the amp's gain then piling on more from the pedal just made it sound fizzy/soft. But, keep trying, I totally understand how the tone you get either inspires or de-motivates, but you'll get there.
 
#10 ·
First off, welcome to the forum bro!

A lot of us here started like you. I know I used to run a metal zone into a small combo when I was a kid in my parents house. While some are giving you hints to make your current rig sound better (with metal zone tips), I would just dump that setup to be honest. Fortunately for you, good gear for cheap is way easier than it was when most of us started out. In terms of your guitar, change out the pickups like Iron suggested. A seymour duncan distortion is a great option and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg either. Learning how to solder is also beneficial too because you are less apprehensive to try new pickups. Some of us here also have this stuff laying around in our drawers so feel free to make posts wanting to buy gear like pickups. Hell, I have 2 seymour duncan JBs laying around in my drawer right now.

In terms of your amp/distortion sounds...

There is deff a "meme" here of "just buy a 5150". There is a reason for that. The 5150/6505 series is a killer/affordable (for what it is) series of amps that is damn near impossible to get a bad tone from. You dont have to sit there and tweak knobs forever as long as you know the basics. However, even though they are affordable, they are not necessarily in everyones budget as the full size heads (used) are from $500-$800 and then you need a cab. There are also combos too starting around $350 on the used market. The other issue too is that they are loud as fuck. Its a tube amp, and most are really loud. If you live in an apartment than this is not a good solution. A good solution (for a 5150 variant) is the 6505 mh (mini head). 20watt head and can go down to 1 watt. I have one of these and its the amp I used late at night when the wife is sleeping. You still need a speaker cab for it but these are very affordable and it even has a headphone jack. Ill post a demo to it below.

However, if you really do not want to go down that rabbit hole, just get a boss katana. Those things are just absolutely killer for what it is. My friend has one and it does anything reasonably well enough without having to need to have additional pedals because it includes a lot of the pedals (in digital form). Coming from most of us here, who have high end tube amps and digital modelers, they get a lot of praise around here. I think the 50watt combo is only $225 or something?

 
#11 ·
Thanks everyone for great piece of advice!

Since my budget is limited here's my shopping list for now:

1) Boss Katana Combo
2) Seymour Duncan Distortion pickups
3) Reasonably priced audio interface to test amp sims

Long term goal: 5150 :metal:

Can't wait to hear a proper chug :shred:
 
#13 ·
Not sure if this would be helpful for you, but Reaper has guitar plugs-in built in (at least they used to...?) and the software is dirt cheap. You get an easy to use DAW and some plug-ins for under $100. Bonus: you can use it for free for a trial period to get you by and see if you dig it or not.
 
#14 ·
i bought a focusrite scarlet 2i2 a while back and it works great for plugins with reaper. it didn't cost too much either. i think i payed like $160 for it. the plugins I started with was the Lecto plugin which is free and is supposed to sound like Mesa Boogie rectifier. you'll also need cabinet sims so it sounds like its going through speakers. without speakers the sound an amp makes is very harsh and ice picky. I use the NadIR from Ignite Amps for the cab sims. the NadIR also came with another amp sim which sounded really good as well. i used reaper's built in parametric EQ to boost the lecto plugin at 750Hz and cut the highs and lows. that tightened up the sound and along with the lecto sounded really chuggy. the cab sims from ignite were great for free ones and the sim loader lets you blend 2 together if you want.

https://www.zzounds.com/item--FOCSCAR2I2V3

Download Free Guitar amp simulator plug-in: LeCto by LePou

Download Free IR cabinet simulator plug-in: NadIR by Ignite Amps

alternatively, if you want get a better sound with what you already have you could try graphic EQ pedal. they have some really cheap ones on amazon for under $40. that'll let you cut and boost the parts of your tone that you like and hate and give you much better shaping control than your amp's contour knob. its pathetic that they couldn't have at least given you a 3 band EQ on that thing.

https://www.amazon.com/Caline-USA-CP-24-10-Band-equalizer/dp/B01EPWGF8O/

https://www.amazon.com/JOYO-Electric-Guitar-Equalizer-Provides/dp/B085QKS9LZ/
 
#15 ·
Thanks for more recommendations.

Would focusrite interface play sound from laptop also so that I could play along with the mp3 track while using plugins?

Currently I'm plugging mp3 player to my cheap amp but the output on headphones is terrible. I think it's mono even. Adds to my frustration.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I may be mistaken, but I think the MG10 has a 6.5" speaker. If I'm right, that would be your problem. It's hard to get a full tone from a 6.5" speaker. Too bad there isn't a amp out, so that you can get the Direct (DI) signal from the amp, bypassing the speaker. Then you could use IRs to hear how it really was supposed to sound.

I did something similar with a small Orange Crush that I used for my workbench amp, while testing guitars. I added an external jack, that bypasses the speaker when a plug is inserted. I played through the speaker, then inserted the speaker cable into my Mesa 4x12.

The difference is amazing, even on this little iPhone sound cliip:

 
#19 ·
You don't find a good metal tone dude, it finds you.

It's like the wand shit in Harry Potter, only instead of a 17" willow thing with a core of basilisk pubic hair offered to you by a respectable actor who is slumming it up for a paycheck by appearing in a series which can best be described as "Ayn Rand level objectivist propaganda dressed up in wizard clothes, but the kids love it, as long as you ignore the fact that the 'relatable'/'oppressed' main character is a trust fund kid who wants to grow up to be a wizard cop" you are probably going to be looking at one of the 3-4 variations of amp pretty much everyone in the genre uses. Likely boosted with a TS.
 
#20 ·
you are probably going to be looking at one of the 3-4 variations of amp pretty much everyone in the genre uses. Likely boosted with a TS.
Hey, they're popular for a reason. The 4 variations I use are (in order of preference): 1. Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, 2. ENGL Savage 120, 3. Soldano SLO100, 4. Peavey 5150. Nothing unique about that, but that's because they rule. You don't hear someone playing some kind of tone you've never heard of in metal because it either doesn't work with the style of music or because it just plain sucks. Sure, you'll hear someone playing through an amp brand you've never heard of, but it'll usually be an attempt to capture the sound of one of the more common amps, and I've excluded a few from my 4 variations such as the Marshall JCM800, etc.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Always interesting to read about a metal guitarist's beginnings to the quest for metal tone. Your current gear is indeed a very common beginner's practice rig, and while it obviously has its limits, you can still get a half decent metal tone with it if you go about it the right way. So to get the most of your current gear before you upgrade, here is a useful YT video which features a Marshall MG10 and a Digitech Hardwire TL-2 Metal Distortion Pedal (Digitech's take on the Boss Metal Zone)



I like the amp's distortion channel tone better in that video, the pedal distortion sounds fizzy, but either does the job. While the video demo is more classic heavy metal style riffing, some basic half decent thrash/death metal tones should be possible with the same gear. I started with a Behringer 10 watt practice amp very similar to the MG10, and with a bit of work I had no problem getting such tones, especially with a Metal Zone in the clean channel, it was a surprisingly big heavy sound for a small amp.
 
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