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Some possible CITES (good) news

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cites news wood
3K views 35 replies 20 participants last post by  RGhoarder 
#1 ·
#4 ·
I'm all for sustainable farming/forestry. But rosewood use for guitars is nothing compared to the furniture industry, which is really what CITES was meant to target. Think how many fretboards would go into one executive desk. I don't think there should be no regulations when it comes to musical instruments, but it's inclusion in Cites was a mistake.
 
#5 ·
I get that but at the same time everything counts now. Its not just because I dont throw trash into the street that I will stop doing it because im the only one so it will never matter.

We all need to change our habits. We are already kinda fucked if we dont. We need to change NOW not in the Future.
 
#3 ·
CITES was bullshit about already made and existing guitars, selling used and traveling with them. That is not a problem...

But I don't mind if it prevents future manufacturing. There's other alternatives that look similar. I would even prefer if guitar industry started using LESS natural wood and go for more sustainable AND stable materials.

I'm definitely NOT an expert on this.

But I'm kind of sure that stuff like Richlite, while having glues and shit, still can make more use of less wood.
Lots of wood is thrown away because it's not pretty or might warp due to big knots etc.
Man-made materials doesn't have these inconsistencies and should be less wasteful of wood



I CAN BE WRONG. Please correct me if I'm wrong
 
#13 ·
I'm not sure if this even is good news :/

I'm with Mpexus on this. When you have a shit-house like Harley Benton churning out guitars cheap than budget FX pedals, and 'collectors' buying 10 shit-house strat knock offs and chibsons because they are so cheap, we're gonna burn through a lot of wood that can't be replaced in our life times.

Remember that video of the gibson firebirds being destroyed? Yeah, that's probably nothing compared to the excess coming from brands like harley benton, and all of those chibson's flooding the markets.
 
#14 ·
I agree with all the points of "the overuse of woods is disgusting" in this thread as well. There are enough excellent instruments out there to go around.

I've bought only 4-5 new instruments in my life, much prefer buying used for a number of reasons. (Nicely made) Used guitars are more resonant and warmer anyways, because they've had a lot of time to age.
 
#15 ·
I agree with all the points of "the overuse of woods is disgusting" in this thread as well. There are enough excellent instruments out there to go around.

I've bought only 4-5 new instruments in my life, much prefer buying used for a number of reasons. (Nicely made) Used guitars are more resonant and warmer anyways, because they've had a lot of time to age.
:agreed: I've had about 7 or 8 guitars in my life. 2 of which were brand new.

I've just never seen the point of buying 10 shit guitars, when for the same money you could probably get 2 very good used ones, with just as much versatility, better playability, tone, and less wastage :facemelt:
 
#16 ·
I'm totally not opposed to finding good wood substitutes moving forward. Also, Bob Taylor mentioned years ago that we'd start seeing striped ebony making it's way into the guitar world as a main issue with ebony was that they were disregarding all the striped stuff in favor of the solid black ebony. Striped ebony looks awesome, IMO, and I wouldn't mind at all if it were being used world-over. I'm sure it can be dyed just the same, so there shouldn't be an issue with the naysayers. I agree that we should be shying away from cutting down more and more trees. Thankfully, we're not all loony on here and can surely agree that our climate/environment needs to come first, LONG before guitars.

 
#17 ·
There is no such thing as solid black ebony. :lol: At least not in the sense people think of as "solid black guitar fretboard" ebony.

Ebony is naturally streaky, most of the solid stuff you see is dyed by manufacturers to be solid black, because that is what consumers expect.

Some cuts/species are darker than others, but ebony naturally has streaks, guitar manufacturers dye it black because people want a uniform black.
 
#21 ·
Some of the replacement woods looked super low quality to me. I'm sure they are fine for instrument building and tone, but they have lower perceived quality as a finished instrument. Good luck selling some of these 2016-2019 guitars, a great deal of the CITES affected guitars look like they have fretboards made out of cardboard.

That being said, I like the look of the new JS series Jackson amaranth fretboards more than many new rosewood boards.
 
#22 ·
From: https://www.npr.org/2019/08/27/7545...om-restrictions-on-heavily-trafficked-rosewoo

"Instrument makers and musicians pushed for the exemption, writing in a convention brief that without it, "the world of music and culture will lose certain instruments that produce the highest quality tones, with no corresponding conservation benefit."

They got their wish Monday as a key CITES committee approved it. If finalized as expected this week, the exemption will allow finished musical instruments as well as parts and accessories containing rosewood to be transported freely around the world without permits.

Trade in raw-material rosewood would remain regulated and subject to permits granted by individual countries.

"Today was really the culmination of three years of productive dialog across musical instrument stakeholders, parties to the convention and also conservation groups," said League of American Orchestras lobbyist Heather Noonan.

In a written statement to NPR, Lisa Handy, director of forest campaigns at the Environmental Investigation Agency, an advocacy group, called the exemption "a reluctant compromise for many rosewood source countries."

"We remain concerned this could set a bad precedent," Handy wrote. "It will be even more imperative that the sourcing and manufacturing processes are well-controlled to ensure that rosewood-producing countries, which are struggling to control illegal loggers and trafficking ... receive the international support they need to implement the convention." "
 
#24 ·
Can anyone *cite* an instance of someone getting caught with a guitar manufactured decades ago getting in trouble after submitting to an inspection? I mean, do they employ agents specifically versed in guitars? I'm betting the rules have never actually been enforced on individuals.

I just have this mental vision of some manacled dude getting dragged away to a black site screaming, "IT'S PAU FERRO DAMN IT".

While we're on the topic, do police need a warrant to search a guitar case?
 
#26 ·
I can't see how this couldn't be good news. The CITES regulations have always been ridiculous. I mean, I guess I could look at this as bad news since I sold every single guitar I owned earlier this year, partially because I didn't want to go through the hassle of paying $75+ for each CITES certificate for each guitar and waiting 2+ months for them. But I don't see any reason why people selling or transporting used guitars had to jump through all these hoops anyway. Preventing major companies from contributing to killing off tree species is great, but these regulations have always been a completely unnecessary annoyance for regular musicians.
 
#27 ·
All this autocratic "papers please" bullshit for musical instruments did was make life more difficult and expensive for good people. Good riddance. U.S. visa restrictions for touring musicians should suffer the same fate.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bigger guitar makers like Gibson, Fender and ESP were secretly supportive of these CITES rules, since it dampened international third-party guitar sales.
 
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