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Thread: Snake Oil debunked

  1. #17


    Join Date: Oct 2008
    Location: London, England
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lozek View Post
    I'm not normally a trem user at all but this tour has a few requirements here and there, just fitted the Push-in replacement arm too.
    Samsas Traum?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lozek View Post
    Cheers, been putting quite a lot of work into this one over the last few weeks. It's a Josh Middleton Dual Rec profile that I've been re-shaping each time I make a change to the guitar, I was looking for complimentary tones the other day to try and increase the stereo picture, it confirmed again how relatively minor part the amp plays in the overall tone, in comparison to the Cab and Pre/post EQ decisions.

    I've been trying to get something close to his tones in these videos:
    That would explain why it's pretty beastly. I'd say you're doing well with the guitars solo, but the overall mix is thinner and brighter
    Yeah. They got Doro's lead guitarist to do the latest album, so the solos have been kicking my ass. I'm about five weeks out and feeling quietly confident if I can just keep the work going.

    I've not really put work into the mix, it's just stereo demo drums and programmed bass I was given. Not that I'm saying I could match those mixes with one of my own, but it's what I'm working towards.

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  3. #18


    Join Date: Oct 2008
    Location: London, England
    ME: ESP MI Custom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oogadee Boogadee View Post
    IMO, I think all of this stuff matters, but I think musicians focus on the wrong qualities of materials... usually, the most inappropriate quality being 'cost'.

    From what I understand, Ti is simply an expensive, exotic, man-made metal. I think brands like FU (drum makers as well) take advantage of pushing the idea that cost = tone. In one breath, they'll push a material (brass) for its high-mass properties, then in the next push Ti as the ultimate material. Yet property-wise, it is the exact opposite - literally, density values on the other side of the spectrum, along with it being soft and elastic.

    All things being equal (component shapes & dimensions), we can talk about individual material properties all day - density, hardness, molecular structures, etc - but at the end of the day it comes down to how all of them affect the actual behavioral property (in my uneducated opinion) that matters - damping.

    https://faculty.engr.utexas.edu/site...y1993p2395.pdf

    I'd guess that most of the extra energy conserved by any Floyd block is just going to get transferred to (and lost in) the super-damping trem springs stuffed with $.10 neon pipe cleaners anyway. The left over energy lost to heat, sound, as well as going back into the Floyd base plate and the saddles it supports, resulting in the slight differences we hear on audio clips.

    Can you imagine the expensive clusterfuck of having a guitar that is an assembly of components of contrasting damping qualities? But how cool would it be to experience the opposite, from nut to trem screws, frets included - all factors stacked in the same direction, yet still have the personal desired fret and trem feel? The loudest most boisterous tone ever - then you can finally use a tone knob or throw on coated strings to tame the beast.
    I probably had the brass on there 'because it's better', whereas the change to Ti has been to get specific properties out of the guitar I thought were lacking. Obviously still based on internet hearsay, but trying to go in the direction you're describing of getting everything working towards a goal.

  4. #19


    Join Date: Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocka_Rollas View Post
    I heard a difference in the clips, but to my ears it sounds like the gain knob is raised. I trust Lozek to do his experiment genuinely without tweaking for desired results tho [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.metalguitarist.org/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

    I liked the first parts better, it was tighter and cleaner.
    The second sounded the same except the "mushy sustain" (which is why I thought it sounded like the gain knob was turned up)
    I can totally hear why you would think 'just more gain' hearing it blind, it's a good description.

    And yep, the experiment was to prove to myself if I just wasted cash on internet rumours or not. Clean strings, record, change the block, record with the same signal chain and profile.

    I'm pleased with the results. It is subtle but it's the way I wanted it to go, I was contemplating shifting this guitar a little while back as I was unhappy with how it stacked against some of my others, but now I'm feeling it again.

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  6. #20


    Join Date: Oct 2008
    Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
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    With all the pickup swaps and experimenting I do, I've come to the conclusion that recording it and listening back isn't the best way to demonstrate to people the differences you're experiencing tbh If it feels like a big difference to you, go with it. Especially playing live. The differences in feel and tone whilst going through a roaring wide-open 4x12 are significantly more amplified (go figure) than just A/Bing it with recordings. Something that's a barely audible difference on a recording can feel like night and day when it's rumbling through your feet. So what I'm saying is, despite the subtlety, I bet this is actually quite a sigificant change where it matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oogadee Boogadee View Post
    IMO, I think all of this stuff matters, but I think musicians focus on the wrong qualities of materials... usually, the most inappropriate quality being 'cost'.

    From what I understand, Ti is simply an expensive, exotic, man-made metal. I think brands like FU (drum makers as well) take advantage of pushing the idea that cost = tone. In one breath, they'll push a material (brass) for its high-mass properties, then in the next push Ti as the ultimate material. Yet property-wise, it is the exact opposite - literally, density values on the other side of the spectrum, along with it being soft and elastic.

    All things being equal (component shapes & dimensions), we can talk about individual material properties all day - density, hardness, molecular structures, etc - but at the end of the day it comes down to how all of them affect the actual behavioral property (in my uneducated opinion) that matters - damping.

    https://faculty.engr.utexas.edu/site...y1993p2395.pdf

    I'd guess that most of the extra energy conserved by any Floyd block is just going to get transferred to (and lost in) the super-damping trem springs stuffed with $.10 neon pipe cleaners anyway. The left over energy lost to heat, sound, as well as going back into the Floyd base plate and the saddles it supports, resulting in the slight differences we hear on audio clips.

    Can you imagine the expensive clusterfuck of having a guitar that is an assembly of components of contrasting damping qualities? But how cool would it be to experience the opposite, from nut to trem screws, frets included - all factors stacked in the same direction, yet still have the personal desired fret and trem feel? The loudest most boisterous tone ever - then you can finally use a tone knob or throw on coated strings to tame the beast.
    all in all, if you play Floyds (which I do, always have, always will) you've just got to expect to take that hit, and when A/B'd against any TOM guitar it's always going to have *that* sound. You can do these upgrades, and there are improvements to be made, but you're still fighting those springs at the end of the day. It's a small sacrifice though, because they excel in many other ways, for example I always find them harmonically far superior, and generally just suit my playing and feel, and respond the way I want them to.
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  7. #21


    Join Date: Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattayus View Post
    With all the pickup swaps and experimenting I do, I've come to the conclusion that recording it and listening back isn't the best way to demonstrate to people the differences you're experiencing tbh If it feels like a big difference to you, go with it. Especially playing live. The differences in feel and tone whilst going through a roaring wide-open 4x12 are significantly more amplified (go figure) than just A/Bing it with recordings. Something that's a barely audible difference on a recording can feel like night and day when it's rumbling through your feet. So what I'm saying is, despite the subtlety, I bet this is actually quite a sigificant change where it matters.
    That's the one thing I struggle with filming pickup comparisons - it's easy enough to capture the tone difference, but the difference in feel is sometimes bigger, and there really isn't a good way to capture that in a video comparison, except maybe sometimes you can tell I'm getting into it a little more with a pickup that "feels" better to me.

    Still, here, there are audible differences.
    "They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are a bit dicier." - David Foster Wallace

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