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Snake Oil debunked

3K views 20 replies 9 participants last post by  Drew 
#1 ·
Alright, have a listen to these two clips. Each four bars is an A/B back and forth, the difference is subtle in the mix but fairly clear on the guitar only version. But, what's the difference?



 
#2 ·
I think I know the answer from social media, but want to see if Rocka gets it. If Rocka does get it in one guess, we all owe him an apology. :lol:

The first 4 bars of the guitars only version definitely have a bit more bottom/boom. I'm guessing the second 4 bars sit better in a full mix.
 
#10 ·
I think I know the answer from social media, but want to see if Rocka gets it. If Rocka does get it in one guess, we all owe him an apology. :lol:
Why would I be able to tell?
Nobody needs to apology for anything.

I would have assumed turned the gain knob up 1 notch by listening to the clips, but apparently that was wrong.
 
#4 ·
B sounds like it has slightly more oomph, more output even, and all round a tad more body. I'm gonna go ahead and say sustain block upgrade? It's so minimal though. I didn't find a huge amount of difference when I did it on an old Charvel, but it was there. Again, just like with pickups, it's more in the feel than in the EQ itself, but there is a subtle difference, which is why I'm guessing this is what this is.
 
#5 ·
Yep, Mattayus got it. A is a Hantug titanium block, B is an FU tone oversized brass, the profile is set up for the brass so I'm going to experiment with patch changes and see what happens. What I'm hearing (potentially with purchasers bias) is that the low end is faster and less resonant on the titanium, so it sounds tighter and notes don't ring into each other so much.
 
#6 ·
Ah interesting stuff. If it's any help, I concur with your findings.

What I don't get about the whole brass block thing in particular though, is that people describe it as both mellowing/softening the tone, whilst also giving it tighter bass and more sustain. In my experience, those two properties are at odds with eachother, so I'm not sure how much of it is true, and how much of it is preconception.

The main thing that made me rip out my brass block faster than anything is how much it encumbered the movement of the trem, due to it taking up so much room in the cavity. I could only move the Floyd so far without it hitting the sides.
 
#8 ·
Agreed, I think that's where I'm coming to with these changes is that one enhancement always comes at the cost of another. You know the journey I've been on with this guitar in the last couple of months, I think all those pick up swaps allowed me to really understand the character of this guitar and then come up with a course of action accordingly. The other change we discussed arrives today........

I'm not normally a trem user at all but this tour has a few requirements here and there, just fitted the Push-in replacement arm too.

It's pretty subtle, but it's there. I can't say it really makes any obvious difference in the mix though. Beastly sounding tone :yesway:
Cheers, been putting quite a lot of work into this one over the last few weeks. It's a Josh Middleton Dual Rec profile that I've been re-shaping each time I make a change to the guitar, I was looking for complimentary tones the other day to try and increase the stereo picture, it confirmed again how relatively minor part the amp plays in the overall tone, in comparison to the Cab and Pre/post EQ decisions.

I've been trying to get something close to his tones in these videos:

 
#14 ·
IMO, I think all of this stuff matters, but I think musicians focus on the wrong qualities of materials... usually, the most inappropriate quality being 'cost'.

From what I understand, Ti is simply an expensive, exotic, man-made metal. I think brands like FU (drum makers as well) take advantage of pushing the idea that cost = tone. In one breath, they'll push a material (brass) for its high-mass properties, then in the next push Ti as the ultimate material. Yet property-wise, it is the exact opposite - literally, density values on the other side of the spectrum, along with it being soft and elastic.

All things being equal (component shapes & dimensions), we can talk about individual material properties all day - density, hardness, molecular structures, etc - but at the end of the day it comes down to how all of them affect the actual behavioral property (in my uneducated opinion) that matters - damping.

https://faculty.engr.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/jmatersci_v28n9y1993p2395.pdf

I'd guess that most of the extra energy conserved by any Floyd block is just going to get transferred to (and lost in) the super-damping trem springs stuffed with $.10 neon pipe cleaners anyway. The left over energy lost to heat, sound, as well as going back into the Floyd base plate and the saddles it supports, resulting in the slight differences we hear on audio clips.

Can you imagine the expensive clusterfuck of having a guitar that is an assembly of components of contrasting damping qualities? But how cool would it be to experience the opposite, from nut to trem screws, frets included - all factors stacked in the same direction, yet still have the personal desired fret and trem feel? The loudest most boisterous tone ever - then you can finally use a tone knob or throw on coated strings to tame the beast.
 
#18 ·
I probably had the brass on there 'because it's better', whereas the change to Ti has been to get specific properties out of the guitar I thought were lacking. Obviously still based on internet hearsay, but trying to go in the direction you're describing of getting everything working towards a goal.
 
#20 ·
With all the pickup swaps and experimenting I do, I've come to the conclusion that recording it and listening back isn't the best way to demonstrate to people the differences you're experiencing tbh :shrug: If it feels like a big difference to you, go with it. Especially playing live. The differences in feel and tone whilst going through a roaring wide-open 4x12 are significantly more amplified (go figure) than just A/Bing it with recordings. Something that's a barely audible difference on a recording can feel like night and day when it's rumbling through your feet. So what I'm saying is, despite the subtlety, I bet this is actually quite a sigificant change where it matters.



:agreed: all in all, if you play Floyds (which I do, always have, always will) you've just got to expect to take that hit, and when A/B'd against any TOM guitar it's always going to have *that* sound. You can do these upgrades, and there are improvements to be made, but you're still fighting those springs at the end of the day. It's a small sacrifice though, because they excel in many other ways, for example I always find them harmonically far superior, and generally just suit my playing and feel, and respond the way I want them to.
 
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