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Thread: Mixing: Monitors vs. Headphones

  1. #17


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    Not sure if this helps any, but mixing with headphones is a better option than mixing on monitors in a shitty mixing environment.

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  3. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by jmeezle View Post
    Not sure if this helps any, but mixing with headphones is a better option than mixing on monitors in a shitty mixing environment.
    It is unless you really know the room you're in. Also open back headphones are ideal because closed back create bass pollution.

  4. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg McCoy View Post
    That's a hugely popular can of worms. If you google "ATH-M50 vs. DT-770" there are hundreds of threads on it. Partly dependent on what kind of music you play and listen to as well. I think generally, extreme metal guys lean towards the m50s.

    770s also have multiple versions. 80 ohm and 240 ohm or something like that.


    Well, at a minimum, find somewhere you can try them.

    FWIW, Kagami, I didn't find the bass response exaggerated, at all - it was very deep, but not particularly forward, if that makes any sense, whereas the M50s were "punchier" but without the low end extension, IMO.
    "They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are a bit dicier." - David Foster Wallace

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  6. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post


    Well, at a minimum, find somewhere you can try them.

    FWIW, Kagami, I didn't find the bass response exaggerated, at all - it was very deep, but not particularly forward, if that makes any sense, whereas the M50s were "punchier" but without the low end extension, IMO.
    Well........unless you are one of the people who believes headphones need to be broken in. Although that is always a controversial topic, because it's difficult to tell the difference between the drivers being "broken in" and the listener getting used to the sound from continued use.

    Not "burning in", mind you. That's homeopathic/anti-vaxx level bullshit, but there are plenty of people who believe out of the box drivers on cabs/speakers/nicer phones/etc. don't really come into their own until a couple hundred hours of music is played on them.

    There's a lot of bullshit when it comes to stuff like that, but I do think some of it is true, depending on model/design. The only places I've notably experienced it on gear I own are out of the box v30s (which a lot of people believe need a bit of breaking in to sound right) and m50s. I think they sound noticeably different after a lot of use, noticeably different as in noticeably better. I've had Sennheisers and Grados that I listened to a lot that never mellowed out.

    I have two pairs of m50s though, and the older pair definitely sounds better to me. Those have a shit ton of hours though, like 400-500+ easy, since I also wear that at the gym and running.

    Basically though, nothing out there is perfect, echoing earlier talking points in this thread, just find something within reason and stick with it. There are so many factors at play (what you drive it with, personal preference, your personal hearing, etc. etc.) It's worth noting that not everyone's ears are attuned to the same frequencies (there is a big difference between men and women alone), so even disregarding preference and other shit in the signal chain there is a lot at play.

    Specific brands also have different philosophies regarding frequency response. There are some people who don't like any of the German Hi-Fi brands and how they handle frequency response. I think Sennheiser phones are massively overrated personally. German phones dominate the market, but a lot of people prefer to go with American brands like KOSS or Grado, which in general are a bit different. Audio Technica and Sony are also prevalent Japanese brands. All the German hi-fi stuff is generally known for the kind of highs you were talking about earlier, which some like and some don't. You are either going to be getting something Japanese, German (Austrian/Dutch/etc. anything around there), or American when it comes to phones, and they are known for different frequency responses. A lot of the design philosophy differences in high end audio stuff is region specific.

    In general, anything German is going to have a more scooped, hi-fi sound. Beyerdynamix, Sennheiser, etc. There's a lot of brand loyalty in the headphone enthusiast world, even moreso than in speakers. Some people really do not like the hyped hi-fi sound of German brands like Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic.

  7. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg McCoy View Post
    In general, anything German is going to have a more scooped, hi-fi sound. Beyerdynamix, Sennheiser, etc. There's a lot of brand loyalty in the headphone enthusiast world, even moreso than in speakers. Some people really do not like the hyped hi-fi sound of German brands like Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic.
    I can attest to this, at least - I'm not sure I'd say "scooped," but high end and low end extension is (to my ears) quite a bit higher and lower, respectively, for my DT770s than my M50s, which are a little more constricted by comparison. To me, this translates into improved accuracy, and I trust the 770s more than the M50s to make mix decisions... But another pair of ears may disagree.

    What I will say, unequivocally, is the DT770s are far more comfortable to wear for extended periods than the M50s, and that I prefer them for that reason, over and above their sound (which I actually don't love for casual listening, but I feel like its way easier to hone in on small changes on them than on anything else I monitor on)

  8. #22


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    It's not bullshit lol, spiders loosen up as they are used up to a certain point. They're a lot more inflexible when new, this is why guitar speakers sound really bright and stiff when you first install them. The extent of it obviously varies a lot due to differences in driver design as well as the weight of the driver itself.

    I've only used the high end sennheiser models and they are just about the opposite of hyped as you can get lol, people complain all the time about them not having enough bass & treble and sounding boring. (why HD650 was released, it is a more fun sounding HD600) Beyers are much more high/low oriented, if you listen to DT770 and DT990 you can tell this. The DT880 model was their attempt at having a more neutral sounding headphone.

    I used to really be into headphones and tried a LOT of models back in early to mid 2000s but I only use my HD600s now, really. I have a few others but don't listen much on them.

    In the end knowing your stuff is more important than focusing on gear but I did make my point about the DT770s because it's true, they do have bass emphasis and are known as basshead cans for a reason, all closed headphones have this problem. It's like sticking your speakers in the corner and increases the bass response. Open headphones are like having your speakers on stands isolated from your work desk and walls. They have a lot less bass but the sound is much clearer.

    Look here if you want to see how flat headphones are and note this has nothing to do with sound quality itself lol just the EQ curve https://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements

  9. #23


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    If you don't have your room treated, listening to headphones you know really well and your car are sometimes a better option than your monitors that a lot of people don't like to admit.

  10. #24


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    I use headphones as another reference point, but I would not mix on them.

    A good room and good monitors makes a big difference, but in the end, its not about the gear, it how you use it.

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