Cab acting as mic???
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Thread: Cab acting as mic???

  1. #1


    Join Date: Feb 2015
    Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
    ME: RGIT27FE / Carvin DC
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    Cab acting as mic???

    Long story short: My buddy's 1960b is picking up audio and sending it back through to the recording interface. What the fuck.

    Details...

    DAW: Reaper (OSX)
    Interface: Saffire Pro24
    Rig1: AxeFX2, output1 runs into Saffire-Input3, output2 runs into a matrix/2x12 setup.
    Rig2: MkIV + ENGL E570 routed through an RJM-RG16 with a G-Major. The Slave-Out from the MkIV is sent to the Saffire-Input4, this way we can record everything that hits the MkIV poweramp (his whole rig) and then slap a cab IR on it in the DAW and be done. Per the manual, the Slave-Out is designed to run through an external poweramp or something, but it works great for this application.

    We've always had a bit of bleed from Rig1 onto Rig2 while recording (we record at the same time during practice and for demo tracks) but its low enough that in the mix it goes unnoticed and I haven't taken the time to mess with it until now.

    I found out tonight that even with his rig completely turned off I'm still getting the bleed. Obviously if I unplug his cable from the Saffire the bleed goes away. However, if I unplug MY cable from the Saffire, it still bleeds. This led me to experiment, and I found that running a track through my XiTone (not involved in this recording process, we use it metronome & drum tracks) and hit it loud enough, I get the same bleed. So on a hunch, I pulled the speaker cable out of his cab and VOILA, the bleed goes away with the entire rest of the recording setup left alone.

    So what the fuck is happening here and how do I make it stop?

    I THINK what it is...the Slave-Out on the MkIV gets its signal direct from the poweramp signal. That is to say, whatever is pretty much the final point before the signal is actually amplified and sent to the speaker, a line is run from there to the SlaveOut. So I think because of that, the sound in the room is causing his speakers to vibrate and that slaveout tap is picking up those vibrations and sending them back through the interface to the DAW. ...not sure I can really do anything about that other than alter our recording process, but also not really sure how to record his signal direct without running it from that Slave-Out but still catching everything he plays through. Fuck.

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  3. #2


    Join Date: Sep 2008
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    So a speaker is a microphone in reverse and you can get them to act microphonic or a microphone to be a speaker but I haven't fucked with things hard enough to remember how to get the weird to happen...

    Why not just plug the Engl directly into the audio interface?
    [Leon] 10:03 pm: She can poop on my chest anyday

  4. #3


    Join Date: Sep 2008
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    To clarify my last post:

    Does the Mark IV's recording output actually provide poweramp coloration or a cab sim like the Mark V's does? If it doesn't, you are better off recording the signal direct from the Engl and doing your cab sim stuff elsewhere.

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  6. #4


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  7. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Überschall View Post

  8. #6


    Join Date: Feb 2015
    Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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    No I don't think its got the poweramp coloration, but the issue is he uses the MkIV as his primary tone probably 80% of the time, so using an out from the engl doesn't let us record his main tone. Thats why I'm using that slave out, because no matter what he switches to on his rig, its going to end up going through the mesa poweramp and the slave out is the easiest way to grab that signal.

  9. #7


    Join Date: Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainOfThought View Post
    No I don't think its got the poweramp coloration, but the issue is he uses the MkIV as his primary tone probably 80% of the time, so using an out from the engl doesn't let us record his main tone. Thats why I'm using that slave out, because no matter what he switches to on his rig, its going to end up going through the mesa poweramp and the slave out is the easiest way to grab that signal.
    I don’t understand what’s going on here. The Engl is running through the Mark IV?

    Are you layering the different tones he uses with different tracks? You can record the Mark IV direct by itself, and record the Engl direct by itself.

    You have a bit of a complicated setup here that’s hard to remotely troubleshoot because there are so many variables involved. Breaking down the setup piece by piece and noting the behavior each time should get you an answer pretty quick.

    I’m not understanding the relationship between the Engl and the Mark IV at all right now.

    EDIT: The Engl is a preamp, right?

  10. #8


    Join Date: Feb 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by zepp View Post
    I don’t understand what’s going on here. The Engl is running through the Mark IV?

    Are you layering the different tones he uses with different tracks? You can record the Mark IV direct by itself, and record the Engl direct by itself.

    You have a bit of a complicated setup here that’s hard to remotely troubleshoot because there are so many variables involved. Breaking down the setup piece by piece and noting the behavior each time should get you an answer pretty quick.

    I’m not understanding the relationship between the Engl and the Mark IV at all right now.

    EDIT: The Engl is a preamp, right?
    Hahaha yeah you're telling me, I have a hard time troubleshooting his rig and I'm in the same room with him.

    So the RG16 handles all the routing. Its similar to a VoodooLab GCX, a loop switcher. If I remember right, the guitar is plugged into the RG16, that then sends an input out to the front of the mesa and the engl. The engl is routed through the fX Return of the mesa. Switching between loops on the RG16 either 'activates' the mesa or the engl. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly how the RG16 loops are set up to make this all work, but thats the basic idea. The G-Major is also on its own loop there and that allows that to be used with either amp or bypassed.

    At the end of the day though, for the purposes of this problem, you can imagine that we're just dealing with a bare bones MkIV sitting on top of a cab, guitar plugged into the front and a 1/4 mono cable plugged into the Slave-Out and running over to an interface. Nothing else in the rig seems to be related to this particular problem.

    I'm thinking what we're gonna have to do is get something like a Fryette PS-1 or a Torpedo or something like that to go between the amp & the cab and provide a 'better' or at least more isolated output to record with. Outside of that the only option would be to give him a DI box and send his guitar through my axefx and record that silently in the background. Luckily I use really basic presets so I could easily add an amp & drive block for him to record that way.

    Yes the engl is a preamp

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