Metal Guitarist Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
M3 Aficionado
Joined
·
1,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Outside of Josh, I'm not sure who has experience in this realm. Do we have many "Neo-Classical Shredders"? :shrug:

Anyway, I'm looking at doing a number of Flute (or Violin) & Cello Duets with one of the kids. So I'm looking at a tuning that has a Low C. Right now, the only option is to re-string my 25-1/2", 6-String, Steel String Acoustic. The first three alternate tunings that come to mind:
  • CGDAEG: Robert Fripp's NST/C-Pentatonic
  • CGDGBE: Steve Tibbett's
  • CGDGAD: "Steve Vai's" Low-C

Fripp's has an obvious appeal because the bottom four strings are tuned like a cello, is mostly regular and gives more range on both ends.

Tibbett's is nicer for still playing pieces in standard tuning and many of the various 7-Chords line-up nicely.

"Via's" Low-C gets the bottom three 5ths, and has some nice R-5-8 combos.

Not having gone down this route, I'd like to learn from anybody who's tried this.
 

·
Dream Crusher
Joined
·
21,053 Posts
Depends on what type of scale patterns you're playing, really. I found all fifths on guitar to be fun, but awkward for playing anything that I would ordinarily play on guitar.
 

·
Where?!
Joined
·
2,632 Posts
I've done all of these at different points, so here we go...

Fripp's tuning

It's surprisingly intuitive, but you do need a guitar specially set up for it, and all the stuff that's normally idiomatic to the guitar becomes deceptively awkward. One big plus though that a lot of people miss is that it resonates REALLY nicely on acoustic guitars.

CGDGBE

Richard Thompson actually uses this one a lot as well. :) It's really good fun for Travis picking stuff and has the advantage that all your usually stuff will still work on the top strings.

CGDGAD

Hadn't actually realised Vai used this, as I originally got it through Kaki King, as it was one of her main tunings on her first couple of albums. One fun part with this is that you have a lot of the same options for open string scales as in DADGAD tuning, which could sound really nice for cello parts. IIRC, there's a stickied thread in here with a bunch of open-string scales I wrote out that might be useful to you.

As astrocreep says, consider Open C as well, as that one sounds lovely on acoustics, and scales line up in a really logical way. TBH, it's usually my go-to tuning on acoustics when I want to complement electrics in C standard, although I'll often lower the top E to an Eb. If you're playing cello parts note-for-note, you might find it a bit more finger-friendly that an all-fifths tuning, as it'll cut down on a lot of the stretches and position shifting.
 

·
M3 Aficionado
Joined
·
1,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
... is that it resonates REALLY nicely on acoustic guitars ...
I'll start here. Yes. This is the intent. Step 1 is to re-string the acoustic and play the cello parts of Flute (or Violin) and Cello duets while Offspring #1 plays Flute. Step 2 is to do the same thing, but with Offspring #2 playing melody parts on guitar.
Open C? CGCGCE for that Devin Townsend vibe?
Hmmmm. Two sets of R-5-8....
Depends on what type of scale patterns you're playing, really. I found all fifths on guitar to be fun, but awkward for playing anything that I would ordinarily play on guitar.
At this point, I'm not looking at scale pattern, and I'm not too worried about playing "ordinary" stuff on this guitar. The intent when spring/summer comes and I can get back in the shop (aka the unheated garage) is to finish the build I started before my last deployment, as an all-5ths multi-scale.

That said, I have only one acoustic, and I started looking at how standard chords lay-out. That's what lead to the Steve Tibbetts/Richard Thompson tuning (CGDGBE).
I've done all of these at different points, so here we go...
Tom, sorry to have left off Mr. Alternate Tuning. I haven't see you post in ages and I didn't think you'd reply. Thanks for dropping in.
Fripp's tuning ... It's surprisingly intuitive ...
That's another appeal. If I'm going to try to pick-up an alternate tuning now, the regular tuning is very appealing. I will likely ignore the high-G initially.
CGDGBE... It's really good fun for Travis picking stuff and has the advantage that all your usually stuff will still work on the top strings.
Yup. That's the appeal here. The cello transcriptions will likely become tab-like rote finger position memorization, and playing accompaniment on "standards" with the kids will likely result in mapping-out a bunch of 6th & 5th string root barre chords.

New wrinkle as of last night. O#1 wants to try-out for the school Jazz Ensemble in Sept and wants Take Five to be part of her audition. Now I need to look at Flute/Guitar arrangements. to work on over the summer. Can I set-up a "Go Fund Me" to pay the bills so I can focus on keeping up with the kids?
 

·
M3 Aficionado
Joined
·
1,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I just went the NST route on the 25-1/2" Steel-String Acoustic. The strings I used and their tensions:
Code:
G4 0.009" DAPL == 18.57#
E4 0.011" DAPL == 19.62#
A3 0.020" DAPB == 26.43#
D3 0.030" DAPB == 27.1#
G2 0.045" DAPB == 27.01#
C2 0.070" DAPB == 27.91#
total == 146.65#
Best way to describe the change is that the guitar sounds "huge". Sympathetic resonances are up, fortunately they only seem to add to the sound and don't (yet) seem to require additional damping.

First thing on my plate is the Guitar 2 part for one Offspring #2's pieces (Black Orpheus). I realized that the lowest note is a C3, so I can just drop the whole part down an octave.

I think the second piece will be a Flute/Cello duet, so I can play something with Offspring #1. Unless I can convince her to play the single-note runs of Black Orpheus's Guitar #1 part.

Any recommendations of cello, violin, mandolin, mandella, or mandocello pieces to tackle?
 

·
Dream Crusher
Joined
·
21,053 Posts
I just went the NST route on the 25-1/2" Steel-String Acoustic. The strings I used and their tensions:
Code:
G4 0.009" DAPL == 18.57#
E4 0.011" DAPL == 19.62#
A3 0.020" DAPB == 26.43#
D3 0.030" DAPB == 27.1#
G2 0.045" DAPB == 27.01#
C2 0.070" DAPB == 27.91#
total == 146.65#
Best way to describe the change is that the guitar sounds "huge". Sympathetic resonances are up, fortunate they only seem to add to the sound and don't (yet) seem to require additional damping.

First thing on my plate is the Guitar 2 part for one Offspring #2's pieces (Black Orpheus). I realized that the lowest note is a C3, so I can just drop the whole part down an octave.

I think the second piece will be a Flute/Cello duet, so I can play something with Offspring #1. Unless I can convince her to play the single-note runs of Black Orpheus's Guitar #1 part.

Any recommendations of cello, violin, mandolin, mandella, or mandocello pieces to tackle?
Well, there's always the Six Suites. The Prelude to the first suite is the famous one, but they're all great with varying degrees of difficulty.

Also the Elgar cello concerto, but that may be tricky without bowed sustain.
 

·
M3 Aficionado
Joined
·
1,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, there's always the Six Suites. The Prelude to the first suite is the famous one, but they're all great with varying degrees of difficulty.
I've found arrangements of the first three Preludes. They're in the queue. I've been digging around on IMSLP, but much of that is "gut feeling this sounds cool". I also have Bartok's "44 pieces for two violins", so that has some potential too.
Also the Elgar cello concerto, but that may be tricky without bowed sustain.
A sustainer has been on "The List" for quite some time, this may move it higher up.

Since there' the extra range, have you done anything with "hyper tonal" scales?
 

·
Dream Crusher
Joined
·
21,053 Posts
I've found arrangements of the first three Preludes. They're in the queue. I've been digging around on IMSLP, but much of that is "gut feeling this sounds cool". I also have Bartok's "44 pieces for two violins", so that has some potential too.A sustainer has been on "The List" for quite some time, this may move it higher up.

Since there' the extra range, have you done anything with "hyper tonal" scales?
No; I'm not even sure what those are :lol: I messed with fifths tuning for a small amount of time and realized that it wasn't as useful for what I liked guitar for.
 

·
Guiterrorizer
Joined
·
15,696 Posts
I just want to say it's pretty cool that your kids want to play jazz stuff :yesway: best of luck with this!
 

·
Where?!
Joined
·
2,632 Posts
Regarding the sustain issue, maybe try it with an ebow? Ebows one acoustic guitar sound lovely!
 

·
M3 Aficionado
Joined
·
1,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Combining replies:

Hypertonic Scales: Scales that take more than one octave to reply. Motivation was that I noticed that playing four sequential frets in one position (mostly) covers two octaves in four strings and that the 1st octave was missing:
Code:
0  7 14 21
1  8 15 22
2  9 16 23
3 10 17 24
The Jazz thing is cool and somewhat unexpected. We've lucked-out. Offspring #1's flute teacher is definitely not locked into the typical classical pedagogy/dogma. He & his wife are competitive Tango dancers and he's been working with Offspring #2's guitar teacher on Tango duets. Also the High School Band Teacher wants to include flute in the Jazz Band next year. Take Five is number one on the "Jazz Flute" list. Offspring #2 has already decided to play bass & guitar with the Middle School band in the fall.

I totally forgot about the eBows. Are they still made? If not, eBay/Reverb her I come. Oh, and there's the Paul Vo Polyphonic sustainer thing too.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top