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Discussion Starter #1
V30's - I like the 70 watters better......

What Van Noord is saying relates to both of your questions, bleed.

The 30 in V30 has nothing to do with power handling. But making a distinction between the Mesa version and the off-the-shelf version is legit, even though it has little to do with actual power handling capacity. The rated power handling of the V30 of any version (see below) is 65W.

The Mesa version is OEM. This is the T4416 model, which is an 16 ohm speaker. It is made in England specifically for Mesa. But Mesa didn't specify it that way. From what we were told by Celestion around 1997-8, Celestion changed the model T3904 (16 ohm) V30 design in the early 90s to make it easier and cheaper to produce. Mesa didn't like it and insisted on the original version, which then became an OEM model. The 8 ohm version of the Mesa speaker is the T4335. To get an OEM model from Celestion requires a large order. This speaker was made on a separate production line from the off-the-shelf V30, which as Van Nord says is fizzy and thin sounding by comparison.

There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.

When we were using Celestion speakers, we found out about the existence of the T4416 which we had purchased from our German distributor at the time and asked Celestion about it. They had claimed that they didn't offer OEM varitions of the V30, but changed their story when we sent them a T4416 "for evaluation". Then a new rep called us, confirmed that there were in fact two separate V30 production lines and agreed to make us a special T Number OEM speaker. After a couple of months back and forth, we placed a large order and requested the special number assignment, at which time they cancelled the order and reneged on the deal. That's when we switched to Eminence. We haven't used Celestions speakers since.

It's not that V30s don't sound good with our amps. It's just that the T4416 sounds better. The T3904 is now made in China and after all these years, the P50E does what we wanted Celestion to do originally - and does it better, in fact - so we don't need Celestions help.

So, if you like V30s, there is nothing about the amp design that will be compromised using a V30. Our amps are not voiced "only" for the P50E. What is optimized for the P50E is the cabinet design. In that, the P50 will perform better in our cab than any others.

And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*

T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm


*When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper.

Personally I prefer the 4416, but not in a Recto 4X12. And therein lies the rabbit hole - you can't accurately compare like speakers in unlike cabs.
Last edited by sfryette; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:04 PM. Reason: Adding more mind numbing detail...
:spock: *grain of salt :smoking:
 
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Marshall humper
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I played live through a Marshall 1960 AV and loved it. Basically, if you get V30s, will will be happy, unless of course you're rev and your amps eats them for breakfast.
 

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The Singlecut King of Northern VA
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There are so many different stories, here is what we know for fact, Marshall Vintage (V30) came first, we are not really clear if Mesa or Celestion V30 that was sold to public came next, but it seems all three versions do sound different.

However Mesa are not the original V30's. I am not sure if Marshall V30's are made in england or china, but i do know you cannot get over the counter V30's that are made in england anymore, but if you want a good English made V30 then order from Mesa.

Here is the thread from Boogie Board, alot of people chimed in.

The Boogie Board • View topic - Mesa V30 vs Celestion V30
 

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Marshall humper
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Well, I think I'll just get a Mesa or Marshall cab that's pre-loaded then. Which would be cheaper?
 

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The Marshall cab will be cheaper.

FWIW, I have a Marshall and a Mesa cab with their respective OEM v30s. Not enough of a difference to say that one is superior to the other. Are they different? A little. The cabs are different enough that I can't say if it's the speaker or the cab. However, both sound great, when I want a tighter sound the smaller Marshall works great. When I want more thump, the Mesa gets the call.
 

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The Singlecut King of Northern VA
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Some guy on mylespaul forum was selling 4 V30's out of an orange cab and they are made in England and the model is T3904B, seems any big company if they demand it will get the english made, I am pretty sure bogners are also English made.

Here is the link to the for sale, keep in mind the guy sold them already, this is just for reference.

Celestion Vintage 30 Quad, new. - My Les Paul Forums
 

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That was me (Van Noord) conversing with Mr. Fryette at the Fryette forum.
I had said that my Ultralead sounds better through Mesa 70 watt UK V30's than through the newer Chinese versions. He then went on to explain the above post and that he had intended to use the same speakers as OEM for his amps. Cool info for sure.
 

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Interesting, cheers.

Whatever V30s are in my ubercab sound outstanding with my pittbull CL, so I dont much give a fuck, but its a nice bit of trivia.
 

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:bump:

I pulled out the 4 "crappy sounding" V30's from my buddy's 4x12, and took a peak at the "utterly awesome" V30's from my own 2x12 (which I bought from Vince).

Crappies:
  • 2x 3JFT 3904/22 - Look in good shape - made in 1999
  • 1x Y15 3904 - Looks crappy - made in 1990
  • 1x Y22 3904 - Looks crappy - made in 1990
Awesomes:
  • 2x 30DP 3903 - Look brand new - made in 2004

Now, I was thinking that the newer V30's were the garbage ones? The 2004 8 ohm drivers sound smoother than the '99/'90 16 ohm drivers, but still have that V30 character. I will try the two older pairs in my other 2x12 cab, to see how they sound on their own.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
yes could be the cab or general condition/age of the speaker
 

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Yeah, too much going on and too much misinformation to make any calls just yet.

Fucking hell :lol:
 

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Alright guys, so I tossed one '90 and one '99 V30 into a 2x12, to A/B them. I was expecting to hear one crap versus another crap, but they both sounded awesome! The '90 V30 had a touch more high-end, so I pulled the '99 and put in the other '90.

So, it seems it really was the 4x12 enclosure that was giving me shit tone, which I didn't really expect.

Now I've got an Avatar 2x12 with 8 ohm V30's @ 16 ohm, and an Avatar 2x12 with 16 ohm V30's @ 8 ohm. They both sound badass, and now I'm looking for another empty Avatar 2x12 for the two '99 V30's and will be selling the Governors :lol:
 
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