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· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
every single one has a different interface.
I don't see this as a problem. Just nice to have choices :)

These phones need the ability to go back to a plain jane Android install
I agree on that one though! I'm not a fan of sense -_-
Not that it's a big problem for me or I would have rooted it already :p

But I guess having launcher pro running on top of sense theoretically makes the phone slower? Not that I've noticed it, but still. Should have the choice to go back to plain android. I would have done it right away if I had the choice.

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
And most people doesn't own a smartphone... :p

Anyway. Even though I don't like sense, the phone is so customizable that I can pretty much still have it just the way I want it. It's annoying that it theoretically is running a bit slower because I have things running on top of sense, not that I've noticed it, but you know. That's my only problem really. I've just deactivated the stuff I don't want, but there should be an easy way to just have stock android for those who wants that.

I don't see why we don't have that choice. I mean, they don't have anything to lose having that option... do they?

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
Is it? I haven't even noticed and I use copy/paste all the time :p

What exactly is the difference between the browser in iOS and android? I haven't really noticed much difference there either. Except I have flash now of course :p
I also like that the browser on android acts just like I'm sitting on the computer. No redirecting to mobile versions or touch version or whatever...

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
1. Really? I'm just holding down and then I get two handles that I can select text with. I had to try it again now just to check, hehe. No issues at all.

2. I'm not a heavy user of it either, but I used it the other day. It's just nice to have it, just in case :)

3. Hmmm... Maybe it's not the stock browser then. I don't know what's stock and what's not with this sense thing, haha. Or maybe it's just a setting. Can't remember I've changed any settings in it though..

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
Yeah, the copy and paste is horrible on Android; we've already covered this. Yeah, she tried multiple browsers and multiple clients. They're crap compared to what's available on iOS. That's not Android's fault, but it is what it is.

Why are you so hell bent on other people liking Android? If they don't, they don't. It's subjective. I like Android, but I think iOS is better. It's certainly more stable. And I agree with my wife; the app selection is a lot better on iOS, and that has a ton to do with how good the device is overall.
You're right. The copy and paste is horrible on android :roll2:
And look at that browser, crap! :rofl:

The iphone has been longer on the market so it has a better selection of apps, just like any console that have been longer on the market have a better selection of games... in the beginning anyway.

Still, can you give me one, just one, app that you find useful and use regularly that you have for the iphone which don't have a similar version on android that do just as good job, or even better... for free.

Ok, maybe not for free (although I found this to be the case a couple of times when I swtched over). But you get my point.

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
The token Apple hater chimes in. :lol:
Yup, I´m the one saying Apple is HORRIBLE and CRAP. Right?
It´s funny because I actually loved my iphone. And it´s still a good phone. Android is just way better, you know? Haha.

I guess I´m an apple hater for liking my desire better :p

First, the browser doesn't look any better than the default or Dolphin, neither of which I care for.

Second, instead of being an incredibly arrogant dick as usual, how about explaining how you get that copy and paste dialog, since as I've said many times before MY DROID DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. NEITHER DOES THE SAMSUNG GALAXY S.

As for apps, let's see: Twitter apps. Facebook is better on iOS. Amplitube iRig. Peavey AmpKit. Multitrack DAW. Express News, which is available on Android but sucks compared to the iOS version. Premier Guitar. Better RDP clients on iOS. TabToolKit. AirDisplay. Groovemaker.And far better games overall.

Even better, let me know when you can get it through your thick skull that I prefer iOS. I like it better. It's just the way it is.
So we´re talking about how they look now? I care more about the functionality to be honest.

I thought it was pretty obvious in the video. I´m pressing my finger down and *bop* there it is. I don´t know what you are doing wrong. I´m just showing how it is on the htc desire. Why do you get so upset by that? Calm down dude.

Now tell me why it´s better on the iphone. Start with twitter. I use twidroyd, what is better with the iphone version? I use facebook in the browser, what beats that in the iphone app?
I can´t speak for those other apps. Amplitube, ampkit, multitrack DAW. Never tried them, and if there are versions on android I haven´t tried those either. Never looked for them.

As I said. Useful apps that you use regularly.

Do you really sit down and record multitrack recordings on your phone? If so that´s kinda funny. Can you even use amplitube/ampkit to record in the multitrack? Isn´t that multitasking which the iphone doesn´t support? Just saying..
Airdisplay? On the ipad, fair enough, that´s pretty neat, but on the little iphone, do you find that useful? ...

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
Ok, I know i'm not the biggest fan of Apple stuff... But even I cringed at the ignorant fanboyism in this sentence...
I'll admit it. I've become a fanboy... the desire is just so god damn aaaaawesome! lol.

Fanboy or not. It doesn't make it any less true, unfortunately.

No, you're an Apple hater because you make retarded statements about the various Apple products, and you champion your chosen platform as being the best, when really it's all personal preference.
What retarded statements?

No, we're talking about how it appears you're just using the standard browser, to which I said I do not like as much as Safari on iOS.
This is why I like the android browser better :)

The point is, I'm not doing anything wrong. It simply doesn't work that way on the Droid or the Galaxy S, hence my complaint, and the reason why I am saying copy and paste is better on iOS.
I guess sense isn't only bloat-ware and stuff after all then :p

Twidroyd sucks, I don't even use that on my Droid, I use the official Twitter app. Of course that's my preference, but I didn't like Twidroyd.
Is this the answer to the question I asked? You know the "WHY is the iphone version better question" I got that you like the iphone version better. I'm just wondering why. As Groff said, it's not that much you can do with twitter, and all the apps seem to be pretty similar.

Maybe I'm a noob, but isn't it just a timeline with tweets and then you have a field you can write your own tweets in? I'm not a heavy user, but that's how I use it anyway.

All of those mentioned are apps I use regularly.

Record multitrack recordings? Absolutely. Multitrack DAW is killer, and works extremely well for impromptu recording when I don't have my laptop with me but have that little device with me. I can then easily pull the tracks to my Mac for finer tuning. What's so funny about that? Do you think the handheld stand alone recorders are funny too?
I think it's funny because I think my 15" macbook is too small (just got a switch-box today so I can connect another screen to it), and you're actually using the 3,5" iphone screen or whatever size it is, haha.

Sure. I've used the voice recorder a couple of times, just humming in some ideas so I don't forget them later you know. But start multitracking and stuff. I leave that for when I'm in front of my mac :p

Amplitube is awesome, especially for $20. It sounds better than Line 6 stuff, and is a blast to play on my lunch break.
I guess we can agree to disagree. Although it probably have it's uses every now and then, for me that would be very rarely, so the $20 wouldn't be worth it, and having to bring a dongle I would probably not be able to use it the few times I wanted to anyway. And as you said, it's android versions too, but I'm not going to even check it out. Not because you say it's not as good (you say the same with the browser). I just think it's a more gimmicky kinda thing. Like games. I have bunch of awesome games on my phone, you know the classics on nes, snes, sega, gba, ps, but I rarely play them really.

For me the sms, phone, mp3-player, mail etc. apps are more important, the apps I use ALL the time. I need them to work exactly the way I want. And with android I can make them do that. The first thing I did when I got the phone was to replace the sms app and mp3-player. I wasn't happy with the ones that I got with the phone. Sms not counting letters written, messages sent etc. mp3 library being organized by folders, ability to send files over the air. That kind of stuff. But with the iphone I had no choice. So for me going back to iphone isn't even worth considering. Not until it is opened up more so I can use it the way I want.

But if you're happy with how it works, that's fine. Still, if you want android to act just as an iphone with itunes and that whole deal... you can.
The other way? Good luck :p

Anyway, agree to disagree? :)

AirDisplay. Yeah, I actually do use it on the smaller devices, though yes it is obviously going to be better on my iPad.
What do you use it for? Just curious.

Additionally, while this isn't the fault of Android in particular but rather a lack of quality development, there's no good podcasting solution that I've been able to find. I listen to 12 different podcasts throughout the week, and the apps just don't do a good job of pulling new episodes down when they're available, marking old episodes as listened to and deleting them, etc. iTunes+iOS is perfect for this, and for me personally that's a huge issue. It became a friggin' nightmare when I tried to use the Droid as an iPod touch replacement for the last couple weeks.
I tried to follow some podcasts back in the day, but it wasn't for me. I'm more of an RSS kinda guy. So I haven't tried that either on android. Still, you think the browser on android is crap compared to safari (yup, I just said it AGAIN, I'm not getting over it), so I don't know if I can trust you that theres no good solutions on the android :lol:

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
I still think it's bloatware, and it's positively absurd to have to have a 3rd party developer have something as rudimentary as copy and paste added onto the OS.
How long did it take apple to get that in the OS? Wanna bet if it going to come on stock android too? In the meanwhile it works perfectly with sense.

Why do you care if it's 3rd party or not as long as it works btw? What an argument!

Yeah it's the answer. I prefer the Twitter app on iOS. I don't remember why I deleted Twidroyd almost a year ago, I just remember getting rid of it as soon as Seesmic came out, because IIRC Twidroyd wasn't very stable at all.
It just is. Ok. Probably haven't been updated in a year either. What an argument!

It's kind of tedious to bring a Mac everywhere, even a 13".
Kinda tedious to record on a small phone too

SSH windows, IM windows, mostly text-based stuff that I need to keep an eye on when I have a lot of Windows open and I'm working remotely without an external monitor.
I don't know what SSH windows is, but if I wanted that I can just open the IM app on my phone. Not as gimmicky though, I'll give you that.

Well if you find one, you let me know. I've tried everything I can find, and it's just built-in with iOS. I don't have time to fiddle-fuck with this crap, I need it to just work. iOS does that for me.
Tried google listen?

And yeah, I am not gathering how Android's browser is superior to Safari.
You probably wasn't able to watch that video I posted with your iphone :lol:

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
I don't know when Apple got it; I didn't have the device before it had it. Why do I care?
OS 3. I had the iphone before that time.

Because generally this and that and a lot of other obscure things I don't know anything about
Basically. You have no idea how it works. The fact that I thought it was a stock android feature says enough about how nicely integrated it is.

Yeah, I regularly go back to stuff I don't like, just to make sure I still don't like it. Sounds like a great use of time. :rofl:
You talk about it as you do.

In your opinion. So you've tried Multitrack DAW?
So you've tried sense? You've tried how copy/paste works with sense?

Oh, and then you can drag it back to your computer's main screen? Cool, how does that work?
Oh, I thought you wanted to use it to NOT have it on the main screen :roll2:

:lol: yeah that's probably the worst of them! Disappointing, since generally Google's own apps are pretty damn good.
At least we can agree on that one. Never tried it, but as you say, googles own apps are usually pretty damn good :)

Don't know, I was on a Mac at the time, though apparently Vimeo, like Youtube, supports html5 video. I wouldn't have been able to watch it on my Droid either though, as it still doesn't have Flash either.
Does the desire have flash? I don't even know. It just works. That's what matters to me :p

I am obviously a Mac user, so it just works better with the shit I already have.
I'm a google chrome, reader, search, calendar, tasks, mail, translate, news, contacts, group, voice, documents, maps.. user. So things just works more fluently for me using android.

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
And that effects me how? Oh yeah, it doesn't. I don't give a shit what you like, in case I haven't made that clear.
I guess it affects you just as much as the lack of copy/paste on the droid to me. Or the bloatware on Samsung S. Or the different interfaces on some other android phones I don't use..

How does that affect me exactly?

I know exactly how it works on the Droid and Galaxy, and it's shown in the videos I linked, that you apparently completely ignored. Try not to be such an insulting prick, and quit changing my fucking quote to something I didn't say.
Sorry, maybe I was unclear. I was talking about sense. Saying 3rd party isn't necessarily a bad thing.

And those videos affects me how? Oh yeah, they don't. (sounds familiar?)
So yeah, I completely ignored those videos.

Uh, no. I don't.
So you didn't compare an app that you tried years ago (which is pretty damn outdated today) with another app that is up to date for today then?

I had Sense phones in my hands long enough to configure them for Exchange and send them out. You're saying how useless recording on an iPhone is as if you've tried it.
"Try not to be such an insulting prick, and quit changing my fucking quote to something I didn't say."
Did I quote that right?

No, I did not say how useless recording on a phone is. In fact, I said I have recorded stuff on my phone a couple of times myself.

What I did say though, is how tedious it must be making multitrack recordings on a phone. It's nice to have the ability to quickly record some ideas so you don't forget them until you're in front of your real DAW. But to use your phone as DAW. Yeah, that sounds pretty tedious to me. To me.

I'm not saying C&P is useless specifically on the Sense, but how useless it is on the Droid and Galaxy, and how fucking inconsistent Android is across devices, which is the point of the thread. It should be built directly into the OS so it works the same on all devices, and not tacked on later by HTC, Motorola, whatever.
I've never claimed that you said it was useless.
I was just telling about my experience with my android phone. Which is only with the htc desire, as you know by now. What I'm trying to say is that 3rd party isn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean, when I had the iphone in the beginning there was no copy/paste, all I could do was to wait for apple to release a new version, simple as that. There was no other iphone versions I could choose from in the meanwhile that had that feature.

With Android you always have a choice. What I think is the strongest feature of Android is what you think is the weakest. Kinda funny huh? :p

If there's anything you don't like about the iphone, then you're out of luck.
In my case:
The sound-quality of the mp3-player, the design, constrained to use only with itunes, price, multitasking, widgets, no standard usb interface, blinking notification, personalizing etc.

Some more important than others naturally, and some of it is fixed with iphone 4. Still have to wait for the other stuff though. No choices, take it or leave it. You already know what I did ;)

I don't know what it has, I've never used one.
I've figured that already ;)

Good for you. Want a cookie?

You're basically being an argumentative dick, and not really reading all of the posts I've posted, so I'm done arguing here. I don't need to argue what my preferences are with you, when you're trying to discredit the value I personally see in recording on the device, the multi screen, and the various other apps I've already said I use on a continual basis that isn't available at this point in time on Android.

I've also said (which you apparently missed) that I still think Android's a good OS, and that they've both got pluses and minuses, but that the iOS platform fits my setup better.
Dear Jeff,
I've read all your posts and there's a whole lot of technically, generally, potentially and hypothetically words used in this thread, and they're all aimed at Android. Who is theorizing and blowing things out of proportion, and who is looking at the facts?

I didn't mean to discredit how you use your phone. I just don't see much value in the things you mentioned as pro's in my daily usage of the phone. As a phone I think other things is more important. Therefore I said we could agree to disagree. I thought I was pretty clear on that one.

Btw, I've also said that iphone has a good OS. It's not very long ago since I was considering waiting for the iphone 4. I'm just saying after trying Android, no clear that, after trying htc desire, my eyes have been opened. You can go on and on about how potentially fragmented and how technically this and how hypotethically that android is in general. It still doesn't change the fact that the android phone I chose, the htc desire... IS AWESOME! :)

I'm allowed to use my phone exactly the way I want with next to no limitations. Therefore I think it's a better phone than what the iphone did for me, and I loved my iphone, I really did, at the time I had it (even though I did have some issues with it).

Again, this is for my use and my opinion and all that. Not trying to discredit anyone that prefer the iphone.

So I say again. Agree to disagree? :)

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
From your first post:
"They're all different, and not in a good way."

From my last post:
"What I'm trying to say is that 3rd party isn't necessarily a bad thing"

Looks pretty on topic to me. But you're right. Much have been off topic too, not exactly unusual in threads.

Anyway. We'll leave it at that. It was fun while it lasted :gayfight:

And for the record, I only called you a dick a couple times, not "all the time".
My bad.

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
I get what you're saying.

Now, lets imagine android is only htc with sense. There isn't any other companies with android phones, only htc. Then on the other hand we have the iphone which is exactly the same as we know it, but theres also other companies with their versions of iOS, some that have features apple still haven't integrated in the iOS. Basically you have choices with a wider range of phones. Some that may suit you better, some that may not.

You see where I'm going?
Does this make Android better and iOS worse than it is now?
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here, but I feel this is what you're saying.

If this is in fact what you're saying, well, then there isn't really more to discuss. We just simply disagree with each other :p

1. I agree. And it's only a question of time until that happens.
2. I agree. What I've read is that sense is so deeply integrated that it's not a simple task to just turn it off. If they wanted to I'm sure it wouldn't really be a problem though.
3. Couldn't agree more. Bloatware isn't as big of a problem in Europe as it is in the US I think though. But you're right.

About the apps. I didn't have any problems replacing what I used on my iphone when I migrated. But if the iphone have better apps for what you use, and you're just fine with the stuff I wasn't happy with on the iphone, then I see why you prefer that one.

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
I guess. I don't think it's good that you have to buy a certain brand phone in order to get certain rudimentary features. I think it should be available across the board.
It's better to have to buy a certain brand phone, and not have the feature at all then. Because theres no other option. Or at least not have it until it's "officially" released by the maker of the OS.

I'm not trying to sound like a dick now (like I did earlier :lol:), but that just don't make sense.

You don't think it's a little ridiculous that at this point I have to go through more steps that are far more inaccurate on my Droid than you do on your HTC?
Well, yeah. But as I try to illustrate. Lets say we're in 2008. The iphone doesn't have copy/paste yet. Wouldn't it be better to have a choice of doing it an inaccurate way than not have the option at all? Until it's "official" I mean.

I guess it have it's pro's and con's. While you have the functionality earlier then you're suppose to, it may make the overall "feel" of the phone not as accomplished.

Then again, you could just choose to go with the official phone of the company that makes the OS. No scratchy features, and no new functionality ahead of time.

I mean, there are how many different Windows PC brands out there, yet firing one up you get more or less the same experience. That's not really the case with Android, and that's disconcerting to me.
I think we are focusing on different aspects.
I'm focusing on the product and you're focusing on the consumers.
I don't look at the difference as android becoming unpleasant at all, as a product anyway. To have choices is just good.

As a consumer it may be unpleasant. Not everyone wants choices. It makes it harder to choose, haha.

I actually saw this study about choices quite some time ago. Very interesting stuff.
I don't remember the specifics, but it was something like this.

If a consumer get, lets say, 3 choices of a product. Only 3. He will actually be more happy with the product than if he got 15 choices. Even if he get a superior product choosing from the 15.
The reason for this is IIRC that as a consumer you question yourself if you did the right choice, even though it wasn't perfect you know you chose the best product out of the 3. Out of 15 you start to wonder if one of the other products was a better product for you and this uncertainty decrease the satisfaction of the purchase.

Heavy stuff.

And I remember this from when I was considering android. The first time I went to the htc homepage I was almost put off by all the phones they had to offer. And I did hell of a lot research before deciding what to go for.

Unpleasant, yes. But ultimately I got a superior product for my needs compared to the lack of choices I had with Apple.

Imagine seeing someone's HTC on Verizon or Sprint, thinking that's great, then buying a Samsung because that's the brand your carrier (T-Mobile) has, yet it looks and operates completely different. That's a disservice to the user, IMO.
I'm not sure how it works over there, but after what I understand is that each phone is closed to one particular carrier? If I'm not mistaken that is messed up. Haha. You got a point there I guess.
I've never thought about that as it doesn't apply to me. Here in Europe we can mix and match phones and carriers as we want.

This is my point. It's not that Android is inferior to iOS. It's that it's inconsistent from carrier to carrier, inconsistent from brand to brand, and that can cause problems and frustration for users.
I understand.
Is the nexus one closed to a particular carrier too?

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
Therefore for Google to release something in 2010 that doesn't function as well as iOS does natively at this point in time and require HTC to add it in themselves to me, IMO, is unacceptable. It's like "guys: have you not used an iPhone? Have you not seen how easy it is? Well HTC has, and they've added it because you've overlooked it". Do you see what I mean?
We can say the same thing the other way around regarding other functions. So it comes down to what is most important for you. Then again, if you really want to be able to use both copy/paste and, lets say, widgets..
That´s what I think is iphones weakness. If you really want something, even though it may be an unpleasant way you have to go to get it, it´s at least possible... in most cases.

Example would be Swype.
Seen this?

You don´t have to use just one finger. I think that one will own swype. Hope it works in other languages too :/

btw, this is the most epic thread I've ever done. :rofl: 11 pages of bickering, to be corralled back into sensible conversation at the end. Brings a tear to my, it does. :yesway::metal:
Just another way to break the ice :hsquid:

You guys are REALLY into phones. :lol:
Haven´t you given up on this thread already?! :p

· with a Shotgun
925 Posts
You have a point, but I was thinking more in terms of what I would consider to be necessities, not "nice to haves". But I guess that could be largely subjective.
As you said, that´s subjective.
Also, widgets, more complete notification system, more complete multi-tasking, sync OTA, no itunes forcing, flash, personalizing, option to replace standard apps etc. None of this is absolute necessities to me. But it adds up you know.

Seems cool, but it remains to be seen how it compares to iOS's keyboard and Swype, since it's not actually out yet. I really don't have any trouble with iOS, however I don't have any trouble with using Swype as a standard keyboard on the Galaxy S either.

The Droid I've always hated typing on, but that's due to it being too narrow in comparison to the iOS devices as well as the newer Android phones like the Galaxy S or Droid X.

Swype is neat, but is a bit gimmicky IMO, and I prefer just using it as a regular keyboard.
I tried SlideType which I think is pretty much the same as swype, maybe not as good, I don´t know. But it wasn´t for me. Kinda fun though. I agree on the gimmick.

BlindType seems very interesting. Looks like you don´t have to be accurate at all :metal:
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