[79]

My mom is the epitome of a user, and she's got an HTC Droid Eris and absolutely loves it. Different strokes for different folks. She doesn't have to do(nor does she know how) all of the things I've done to my phone for it to do everything she needs and more. Also, when she got it, it only had Android 1.6 on it, and she was never effected by it. She loves Sense too.

Okay, but that's one user. I support a lot more than that, and the sentiment is generally "Android is neat, but why all the unnecessary variations, and why the bloatware crap?"

Sure, that's anecdotal too, but I'm definitely not the only one that thinks this way.

 

[Elysian]

Okay, but that's one user. I support a lot more than that, and the sentiment is generally "Android is neat, but why all the unnecessary variations, and why the bloatware crap?"

Sure, that's anecdotal too, but I'm definitely not the only one that thinks this way.

That sounds more like a question someone who is more technically inclined would ask, not the typical end user.

 

[79]

That sounds more like a question someone who is more technically inclined would ask, not the typical end user.

Not really.

"what is this?"

"software you can't remove"

"why?"

"because"

"why does his look different than mine? I like his better"

"because"

 

[Scott]

That's how you'd reply to that type of inquiry?

It wouldn't look as bad if you actually answered the questions in a helpful manner.

Explain what the software is, and what it does if you know, and then explain that it looks the way it does because that's how HTC designed it. The Motorola device looks different because (wait for it) that's how Motorola designed it.

If all the variations are too much, then maybe you should have everyone switch to iPhones or Blackberry's. Limit their choices for the sake of simplicity.

 

[zepp]

That's how you'd reply to that type of inquiry?

It wouldn't look as bad if you actually answered the questions in a helpful manner.

Explain what the software is, and what it does if you know, and then explain that it looks the way it does because that's how HTC designed it. The Motorola device looks different because (wait for it) that's how Motorola designed it.

If all the variations are too much, then maybe you should have everyone switch to iPhones or Blackberry's. Limit their choices for the sake of simplicity.

:agreed:

If you are a customer service rep for a cell phone retailer you should educate customers about the choices they have. The pluses and minuses. Diverse marketplaces = good.

 

[Randy]

If all the variations are too much, then maybe you should have everyone switch to iPhones or Blackberry's. Limit their choices for the sake of simplicity.

 

[79]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

That's how you'd reply to that type of inquiry?

It wouldn't look as bad if you actually answered the questions in a helpful manner.

Explain what the software is, and what it does if you know, and then explain that it looks the way it does because that's how HTC designed it. The Motorola device looks different because (wait for it) that's how Motorola designed it.

If all the variations are too much, then maybe you should have everyone switch to iPhones or Blackberry's. Limit their choices for the sake of simplicity.

The answer of "because" is over simplified, but that's really the gist of it, is it not? I don't know why they install bloatware that is difficult to remove, perhaps you can enlighten me Scott.

The differences between the phones are workable, but that doesn't make them stupid and completely unnecessary.

 

[79]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

That's how you'd reply to that type of inquiry?

It wouldn't look as bad if you actually answered the questions in a helpful manner.

Explain what the software is, and what it does if you know, and then explain that it looks the way it does because that's how HTC designed it. The Motorola device looks different because (wait for it) that's how Motorola designed it.

If all the variations are too much, then maybe you should have everyone switch to iPhones or Blackberry's. Limit their choices for the sake of simplicity.

:agreed:

If you are a customer service rep for a cell phone retailer you should educate customers about the choices they have. The pluses and minuses. Diverse marketplaces = good.

I'm not a customer service rep, I'm a network admin that has to support the damn things when an exec, vp, or "super special" salesman just has to have the new toy of the month.

And sorry guys, but I view the unnecessary differences in UIs and the bloatware as stupid and useless, and I think it makes Android look bad, when it doesn't deserve that viewpoint, because bare Android is pretty decent.

Choice is good, sometimes. But let people add it on after the fact. Isn't that what the Market is for? Isn't that what's so awesome about being open? Give the base features as decreed by Google and let the nerds add whatever crap they want later. But give the average user consistency across devices. Another benefit would be that updates would more than likely come out sooner. Where's 2.2 for Droid X? Galaxy? Still waiting!

 

[79]

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http://i.engadget.com/2010/05/22/entelligence-is-android-fragmented-or-is-this-the-new-rate-of-i/

http://m.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/android-fragmentation-is-real/8499

 

[Elysian]

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I'm not a customer service rep, I'm a network admin that has to support the damn things when an exec, vp, or "super special" salesman just has to have the new toy of the month.

And sorry guys, but I view the unnecessary differences in UIs and the bloatware as stupid and useless, and I think it makes Android look bad, when it doesn't deserve that viewpoint, because bare Android is pretty decent.

Choice is good, sometimes. But let people add it on after the fact. Isn't that what the Market is for? Isn't that what's so awesome about being open? Give the base features as decreed by Google and let the nerds add whatever crap they want later. But give the average user consistency across devices. Another benefit would be that updates would more than likely come out sooner. Where's 2.2 for Droid X? Galaxy? Still waiting!

If you remember, the Droid, which runs vanilla Android, took a few months to get Android 2.1. It's got nothing to do with Blur, as the Droid 2 came out the door swinging with Android 2.2. Not sure why the Droid X doesn't have it yet, but it's supposed to be any day now. Also, the fragmentation articles you linked are pretty bunk by now, considering how old they are, also considering 3/4 or higher of phones out there run Android 2.1 or higher now. Android 1.6 and 1.5 are getting closer and closer to extinction every day, and any 2.X OS can run the same software. The only phones running Android 1.X anymore are phones that just can't handle Android 2.X, and how is that any different from the fragmentation caused by upgrading iOS's?

 

[Soopahmahn]

I agree fully with Jeff on this one, as a Droid owner. I really liked how it was a pretty blank canvas when I got it. Doesn't seem to be continuing in that direction.

 

[Elysian]

I agree fully with Jeff on this one, as a Droid owner. I really liked how it was a pretty blank canvas when I got it. Doesn't seem to be continuing in that direction.

I'm not arguing with that, I :wub: vanilla Android, it's a very well put together OS, IMO. But I also like the idea that the possibilities are endless with how you can make your phone look and act. I ran the stock launcher for the longest time, until a few weeks ago when I set up Launcher Pro with custom icon's, and it's gorgeous looking.

 

[Soopahmahn]

Whereas I don't even know what the fuck a launcher is. :lol:

 

[Elysian]

Whereas I don't even know what the fuck a launcher is. :lol:

:lol: Look up Launcher Pro in the market, you can change the launcher pretty easily(you know, the thing it goes to when you press the "Home" button :rofl: ) The level of customization in Android is only paralleled by Windows Mobile 6.X, and no one uses that steaming pile anymore :rofl:

 

[darren]

Why are the phones different? Because they pander to the carriers, who all want something "exclusive".

This is why RIM was making BlackBerrys with different plastics and unique default themes back in the day... not because it made good business sense, but because the carriers all wanted exclusive hardware.

 

[Elysian]

Why are the phones different? Because they pander to the carriers, who all want something "exclusive".

This is why RIM was making BlackBerrys with different plastics and unique default themes back in the day... not because it made good business sense, but because the carriers all wanted exclusive hardware.

True, that is a very good point, though I don't think that's everything to do with it, since the Galaxy S is going to be on every carrier in the US, and HTC uses Sense a LOT.

 

[darren]

True, things are shifting a little now. Apple was successful in turning the tables on the carriers (or at least on AT&T), and now RIM – and to a lesser degree, Motorola, HTC and Samsung – are getting a little more brave with pushing back and doing what makes sense for them and for end users, not for the carriers.

 

[79]

If you remember, the Droid, which runs vanilla Android, took a few months to get Android 2.1. It's got nothing to do with Blur, as the Droid 2 came out the door swinging with Android 2.2.

The fact that it took Motorola awhile to get 2.1 is a separate issue of them taking too damn long. As for Blur, sure it has something to do with it, because 2.2 was released well before the D2 was. The Droid 2 was designed with 2.2 in mind, and didn't have to rely upon an upgrade. Let's see what happens when 3.0 comes out next month or October, and we'll see who gets it fastest. Hint: it won't be Blur, it won't be Sense. It'll be the pure Google devices.

Not sure why the Droid X doesn't have it yet, but it's supposed to be any day now. Also, the fragmentation articles you linked are pretty bunk by now, considering how old they are, also considering 3/4 or higher of phones out there run Android 2.1 or higher now. Android 1.6 and 1.5 are getting closer and closer to extinction every day, and any 2.X OS can run the same software. The only phones running Android 1.X anymore are phones that just can't handle Android 2.X, and how is that any different from the fragmentation caused by upgrading iOS's?

Yeah, any day now. Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, with the Droid, both 2.1 and 2.2 releases.

And I disagree, the articles are not bunk, because what applied to the differences between 2.0/2.1 and 1.x will very shortly again apply to 3.x and 2.x. Same song, different month. As for the iOS issue; that's for devices that are 3 years old, not devices that were current less than a year ago. A bit of a difference, no? Also, a huge percentage of apps will still easily run on 3.1.3. The same cannot be said for 1.6 or 1.5 for Android. Another problem for Android.

I'm not arguing with that, I :wub: vanilla Android, it's a very well put together OS, IMO. But I also like the idea that the possibilities are endless with how you can make your phone look and act. I ran the stock launcher for the longest time, until a few weeks ago when I set up Launcher Pro with custom icon's, and it's gorgeous looking.

Sure, make it look how you want. That's great. But download it from the Android Market, don't preinstall it. Make every device a baseline vanilla Android device, and then have an HTC repository with Sense available for free download, a Motorola repository with a free Blur download, etc.

And for God's sake, don't put the horrendous bloatware trial apps on there, and then make you go to command line to remove them. I didn't like bloatware/trialware in Windows, I certainly don't like it on a phone.

 

[Elysian]

The fact that it took Motorola awhile to get 2.1 is a separate issue of them taking too damn long. As for Blur, sure it has something to do with it, because 2.2 was released well before the D2 was. The Droid 2 was designed with 2.2 in mind, and didn't have to rely upon an upgrade. Let's see what happens when 3.0 comes out next month or October, and we'll see who gets it fastest. Hint: it won't be Blur, it won't be Sense. It'll be the pure Google devices.

Yeah, any day now. Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, with the Droid, both 2.1 and 2.2 releases.

And I disagree, the articles are not bunk, because what applied to the differences between 2.0/2.1 and 1.x will very shortly again apply to 3.x and 2.x. Same song, different month. As for the iOS issue; that's for devices that are 3 years old, not devices that were current less than a year ago. A bit of a difference, no? Also, a huge percentage of apps will still easily run on 3.1.3. The same cannot be said for 1.6 or 1.5 for Android. Another problem for Android.

Sure, make it look how you want. That's great. But download it from the Android Market, don't preinstall it. Make every device a baseline vanilla Android device, and then have an HTC repository with Sense available for free download, a Motorola repository with a free Blur download, etc.

And for God's sake, don't put the horrendous bloatware trial apps on there, and then make you go to command line to remove them. I didn't like bloatware/trialware in Windows, I certainly don't like it on a phone.

End of August was last timeframe given by Motorola, they did pretty well sticking to it on the Droid, what makes you think they won't on the Droid X? 3.0 next month or October? The earliest I've heard is end of this year or beginning of next. There aren't any "pure" Google devices I can think of off the top of my head anymore, since the Droid and Nexus One are both not being sold anymore. The Nexus One will naturally get the update first, since Google made the hardware conform to their own standards, but other manufactures have to build their own drivers and kernels for the OS, and the Nexus One also won't run the latest and greatest forever, I'd guess 3.X will be the last official update it can handle, once 4.X comes out, much like old iPhones, it won't be supported officially, also just like the G1. Honestly, it seems like you are really going out of your way to demonize the system, when at the end of the day, as an end user, it doesn't have a whole lot of effect on you. I get it though, we're tech savvy, we love our updates, but the vast majority of end users don't care, hence why Apple can go so long between doing major overhauls. Fragmentation doesn't effect the vast majority of Android users, it has been nothing but a red herring for Android detractors since it was first dreamed up.

Also, I can't speak anything about trial software, as I've never dealt with any, so I really don't know what you're talking about there.

 

[79]

End of August was last timeframe given by Motorola, they did pretty well sticking to it on the Droid, what makes you think they won't on the Droid X? 3.0 next month or October? The earliest I've heard is end of this year or beginning of next. There aren't any "pure" Google devices I can think of off the top of my head anymore, since the Droid and Nexus One are both not being sold anymore. The Nexus One will naturally get the update first, since Google made the hardware conform to their own standards, but other manufactures have to build their own drivers and kernels for the OS, and the Nexus One also won't run the latest and greatest forever, I'd guess 3.X will be the last official update it can handle, once 4.X comes out, much like old iPhones, it won't be supported officially, also just like the G1. Honestly, it seems like you are really going out of your way to demonize the system, when at the end of the day, as an end user, it doesn't have a whole lot of effect on you. I get it though, we're tech savvy, we love our updates, but the vast majority of end users don't care, hence why Apple can go so long between doing major overhauls. Fragmentation doesn't effect the vast majority of Android users, it has been nothing but a red herring for Android detractors since it was first dreamed up.

Also, I can't speak anything about trial software, as I've never dealt with any, so I really don't know what you're talking about there.

If you think I'm going out of my way to demonize the system, then you haven't heard or understood anything I've said. I like Android, despite some minor failings, as I've said before. But what the OEM's are doing to it is a shame. It's the carriers/manufacturers that are to blame, not Google Android itself.

And fragmentation is a "red herring"? Are you coming up with that yourself, or are you just regurgitating what you read the Android Team lead say?

And I'm not just an end user, I have to support them, again, as I've already stated. Perhaps you missed that too. It does affect me in that regard.