Metal Guitarist Forums banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Read Only
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I spent a couple of hours with Cliff this afternoon, and he was nice enough to come by to my place to let me check out 7.0, and to show me the right way to match my amp.

I'd gotten pretty great results already with tone matching and the current firmware, and I can say that with 7.0, the results are absolutely SPOT ON. Switching back and forth, after a few clicks I actually had to ask Cliff to tell me which one I was listening to.

We used his development chassis, which he has setup with a great matching preset/template, along with an A/B/Y box that let us tap to switch back and forth between my 6505+ and the matched tone from the Axe-Fx.





The other end of the chain is just a 57 in various positions in front of my Recto cab with v/30s, into a Presonus Bluetube (with the tube gain off) and into the Axe-Fx, which then went out to my HD1221s and to my HS80Ms.



The cabling is pretty simple.

Output 2 -> Input on the amp
57 -> Mic Preamp -> Input 2 on the Axe-Fx
FXL block to route the signal to the head for reference
Output 1 -> Stereo to (whatever speakers)



The results are, no shit, completely spot on. We dialed in a couple of patches - one neutral on the 6505 lead channel (basically everything at noon) and another with the settings I normally play with. Not only is the tone there, but the FEEL of the amp is as well. The Axe-Fx already has pretty solid feel in the current firmware, and with the match + 7.0 everything that I love about the 6505 is there in this match - that awesome tube "bounce", the way it breaks up, everything.

Here's a lousy pic of Cliff's preset: (Note that the cab block is bypassed)



This matching is dead simple to do, takes no time at all, and what's also great is that the controls of the model in the Axe-Fx respond the same way that the controls do on my amp head. The 6505+ doesn't have a bright cap switch, but the 6160 model in the Axe-Fx does, so at the risk of sounding like a cheeseball, it's actually better than the real thing.

I also was lucky enough to get a little advanced preview, so here's my Axe-Fx right now... The perks of living up in the 'burbs a town over from Fractal's shop. ;) (Though I have to go wash and wax Cliff's car as soon as I get done posting this..)



As far as FW7, what I can say right now is that there are new amp models, and you guys that like to abuse your volume knob to play with the way the amps clean up are going to LOVE it. The new reverb sounds amazing as well, especially the way it doesn't get in the way of the actual playing, and is immediately there when you start to let things ring out/sustain.

(And no, I can't send it to you..)

In short: The new firmware is sounding fantastic, and this is DEFINITELY the way to do amp matching. With a basic mic preamp and a '57, anyone can do it, and the results are so spot-on even the most delusional golden-eared tone snobs would be hard pressed to tell which is which.

Great stuff from Fractal, as usual. :yesway:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,232 Posts
faaawk I'm going to kill my co workers (I was supposed to go up to Chris's today)
and they completely screwed something up at work so I could not get up there :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
374 Posts
although i love what the axefx did to the world of modeling over the past years, i find it a bit hypocritical how the main focus of fractal has become 'amp/tone matching' now that Kemper has raised the bar.

still, i'm happy you could nail your 6505s tone with it! :)
 

·
getting schwifty
Joined
·
1,285 Posts
don't hate bro. :fawk:
(kidding)

i feel you a bit, but i'm glad that cliff is doing this.
i think the kemper's cool and all, though as far as the
whole package is concerned, i'm leaning toward the
axe II more since it is a preamp with stellar effects.

imo, i'd actually feel pretty safe playing a show with
my ultra direct to foh and some in-ears. it's convincing
enough for me... given that, i'd imagine the II would
pack an audible improvement over the ultra.
i haven't tried an axe II yet, but i'm guessing it's just
as good..... aaannd it also handles amp matching
well to boot. fuck man. so yeah, i am excited to
see what all of these improvements will lead to.

i wish cliff had traveling salesmen. though instead of
vacuums, they'd bring axefx II's to your door and demo
them.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
although i love what the axefx did to the world of modeling over the past years, i find it a bit hypocritical how the main focus of fractal has become 'amp/tone matching' now that Kemper has raised the bar.

still, i'm happy you could nail your 6505s tone with it! :)
Kemper's entire marketing campaign is squarely based on targeting the Axe-Fx. Fractal's customers asked for something similar, and they implemented it and are continuing to improve on it. Now people are talking about it. It's hardly "hypocritical", it's good customer service.

It's not like hanging out with me for a couple of hours today was a premeditated business move in order to capture the overweight, middle-aged bedroom shredding engineering crowd man. :lol:

We're friends, and he did me a solid by coming by to help me get my stuff squared away. Since there are a boatload of Axe-Fx owners on here, I figure they'd be interested in knowing how the new firmware sounds. There are new amp models, new effects, more amp controls and a bunch of other goodies in the upcoming firmware. Not every Fractal thread needs to turn into a FAS vs KPA debate, especially on here. There are 11,000 threads discussing it over on TGP and HC if you want to go down that road.

Anyway, back on topic, I am pretty fucking stoked that I can get my exact 6505+ tone into my DAW at 3 in the morning with headphones on if I want to. That right there is reason enough to get excited.

So... Who wants to loan me a Mark V? :lol:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,320 Posts
Chris, what he showed you for tone matching, is it specific to micing up a cab live, or do the same principles apply to matching a recorded audio source? Does it also hinge on having the 7.0 update, or is it all accomplishable with 6.0?

I've not had much success with tone matching (to be fair to the AFX, I had a quick pop a couple of times and that's it), but if there's very specific method for getting accurate results, I'd love to know how. I've got plenty of great recordings of my amps I could match, which will allow me to flip them on.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Chris, what he showed you for tone matching, is it specific to micing up a cab live, or do the same principles apply to matching a recorded audio source? Does it also hinge on having the 7.0 update, or is it all accomplishable with 6.0?
Honestly I don't know. The new firmware does have improvements in it, and there are some extra controls added in v7 which may help, but that question is better answered by Cliff than me.

The way we had it setup, the 57 signal went into the Axe-Fx and out of my HD1221s (in addition to coming out of my cabinet), so it was a really great way to see just how accurate it is. I could kill my amp volume and listen to the 1221s (FRFR) and then vice versa.

Tapping the footswitch back and forth and not knowing which source I was listening to was cool as hell, and almost disorienting it was so close. I like to think that I have a half decent ear, and I know my amp, and when I killed the volume on the "real" amp and let the Axe take over, I honestly did a double-take more than once.

I've not had much success with tone matching (to be fair to the AFX, I had a quick pop a couple of times and that's it), but if there's very specific method for getting accurate results, I'd love to know how. I've got plenty of great recordings of my amps I could match, which will allow me to flip them on.
I have to think that this is a much better way of doing it, because (at least for me) I don't have a lot of audio source samples that are just an amp into a Mic and that's it. If you tone match something off of an album, you're getting all of the post production crap (HPF/LPF, compression, etc). With just a mic in front of a cab, the only real thing coloring the tone is the unavoidable mic position quandary. So you could match it on axis, off axis, move it around, whatever until you find exactly how you like it - kind of like how if you walk around the room in front of a 4x12, the characteristics of the sound are going to change based on how your head/ears are oriented to the amp.

I know Cliff's planning on doing a write-up once v7 comes out, along with his matching template, so rather than me throw out a half-assed answer, I'd wait for him to give you the right one. Drew and I matched up his Roadster and got it pretty close using the line out of my THD, but this was way, way, way more accurate (at least in my experience) than the way I was doing it before.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,320 Posts
It sounds like, in principle, it should be doable with my set-up. Unlike the Kemper, the AFX doesn't need to send a signal into the original source, it just needs to listen to it. The recordings I've got are high quality recordings I've made with no post production done to them. It's essentially the same as what was coming out of your SM57.

But you're right, I'll wait to read what the man himself has to say on the subject. The idea of not being able to tell the difference between the amp and source is so fucking cool. Bet it was amazing to hear the same sound coming out of the 1221s.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I don't have my Mark IV any more but I can bring My Mesa rack up to work next week and you can match that , it sounds pretty close to a IV (probably more like a III)
Another upside of the new FW is the way it exports tone matches - it's the same as any other preset, so actually all you need is a 57 (which I'm sure you have) and a mic pre (which you can borrow off me if you need one) and you can match it up yourself w/one cable from the pre to the input using the amp template.

It'd be way easier than luggin' your rack around. :metal:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
575 Posts
Thanks for the heads up Chris, good to see there's other AxeFX II users on here as well.

Not to turn the thread on it's head, but regarding what was said earlier, Tone Match is NOT the focus of the AxeFX II, thus the new amp models and effects among other things in FW7.

I'm super stoked for FW7, Cliff seems like an awesome dude and really listens to his customers, yet still going over and beyond what is asked of him, always coming up with his own great ideas for the AxeFX.

How do you like your HD1221? I'm looking at them as a possibility. Or one, rather.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
374 Posts
Kemper's entire marketing campaign is squarely based on targeting the Axe-Fx. Fractal's customers asked for something similar, and they implemented it and are continuing to improve on it. Now people are talking about it. It's hardly "hypocritical", it's good customer service.

It's not like hanging out with me for a couple of hours today was a premeditated business move in order to capture the overweight, middle-aged bedroom shredding engineering crowd man. :lol:

We're friends, and he did me a solid by coming by to help me get my stuff squared away. Since there are a boatload of Axe-Fx owners on here, I figure they'd be interested in knowing how the new firmware sounds. There are new amp models, new effects, more amp controls and a bunch of other goodies in the upcoming firmware. Not every Fractal thread needs to turn into a FAS vs KPA debate, especially on here. There are 11,000 threads discussing it over on TGP and HC if you want to go down that road.

Anyway, back on topic, I am pretty fucking stoked that I can get my exact 6505+ tone into my DAW at 3 in the morning with headphones on if I want to. That right there is reason enough to get excited.

So... Who wants to loan me a Mark V? :lol:
i don't see how Kemper's campaign is to target the axe-fx. they're completely different approaches to modeling.

i like to think of the axe as a bottom-up approach, where every component of a tube amp is modeled to try to recreate the whole. the kemper, on the other hand was designed to recreate the signal path by analyzing the signal coming from a mic'ed amp without modeling the components involved (top-down approach).

i'm not trying to bash the axe. i think it's a great product at what it does. it's just that since the kemper and it's alternative approach to modeling was introduced, suddenly fractal also changed/expanded it's 'bottom up' modeling paradigm to copy what kemper came up with. this is what i find hypocritical.

anyway, this is without a doubt a great addition to the capabilities of the axe2. so the consumer wins, no question.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,232 Posts
ya I still have an sm57 and an M-Adudio mobile Pre(which is what I used to record before I got the axe)
I'll have to take a look at how to do this when V7 comes out, my buddy has a JVM and an actual 1969 basketweave cab that sounds glorious when cranked , I should bring my Axe over to his house and match that.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
i don't see how Kemper's campaign is to target the axe-fx. they're completely different approaches to modeling.

i like to think of the axe as a bottom-up approach, where every component of a tube amp is modeled to try to recreate the whole. the kemper, on the other hand was designed to recreate the signal path by analyzing the signal coming from a mic'ed amp without modeling the components involved (top-down approach).

i'm not trying to bash the axe. i think it's a great product at what it does. it's just that since the kemper and it's alternative approach to modeling was introduced, suddenly fractal also changed/expanded it's 'bottom up' modeling paradigm to copy what kemper came up with. this is what i find hypocritical.
You're obviously entitled to your opinion. I don't work for Fractal, and don't give a shit what anyone buys/uses/likes, but with that in mind, I still don't see how it's hypocritical.

The KPA is the direct competitor to the Axe-II - it's only competition, really. You have the 11R at the lower price point, and then the Pods and stuff below that. This post - yeah, it's about Amp Matching, but I didn't make it to plug Fractal. This is a small niche forum and I'm a middle-aged bedroom shredding nobody, and the only reason people may have heard of me is because I started a huge forum eight years ago that turned into Djent Ground Zero. :lol: It's not like anyone's going to buy/not-buy it because I like it.

That said, their amp modeling is still the same as it's always been. There are a bunch of new amps in this Firmware (Diezel, Splawn, Suhr) that have nothing at all to do with profiling/matching/whatever. There's also a new reverb that's gorgeous, and a bunch of other goodies.

FAS's customers wanted something like the KPA's profiling, and even though they didn't need to (it's not like they're having a hard time selling Axe-Fxs), they came up with a solution that works pretty damn well, could be flashed to the existing hardware as part of a firmware update, and did it at no cost to to their customer base. I don't see how that's hypocritical, it's just good customer service to me. They didn't stop adding amp models because of Tone Matching, and the ones they add aren't just match-eq'd versions of something else.

anyway, this is without a doubt a great addition to the capabilities of the axe2. so the consumer wins, no question.
On this, we agree. :yesway:
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top