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It's just a joke
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, this is for the Fratomic people.

I finally got my Atomic reactor cab in and wired it up to my HT750 power amp. I had been using the Behringer (a B212A) that I had picked up just to have something cheap because the band needed a monitor.

o_O

The Behringer sounded great.... The atomic sounds good, but it doesn't have the presence and punch of the Behringer. It could be power handling (450W power in the Behringer, about 350 a side from the HT750)... but I don't have these things turned up anywhere near peak capacity.

Anybody else tried this monitor?
 

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Do you have the cab sims on? Is it possible that the Atomic might be reacting more accurately to the sim that you have on than the Behringer was?

It may just be the difference in responses between a squared 212 and the slant Atomic as well. :scratch:
 

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NSLALP
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I'd wager that you need to re-work your patches, as all the Behringer will have that the Atomic doesn't is a harsh and peaky high end. I can't comment on woofer "punch" but I notice no lack of it through my rig. :2cents:

Also I don't know anything about the HT750...
 

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It's just a joke
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I'd wager that you need to re-work your patches, as all the Behringer will have that the Atomic doesn't is a harsh and peaky high end. I can't comment on woofer "punch" but I notice no lack of it through my rig. :2cents:

Also I don't know anything about the HT750...
The HT750 is an old 750W carvin power amp. Late 90s I think. Got it in trade for an old guitar, held on to it. Predecessor to the DCM series I think?, as the manual says "DCM" in a few places.

The patches are currently stock. I haven't had the time to mess with em much.

Also, if you haven't listened to the Behringer... give it a try. I try not to judge gear by brand alone.
 

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NSLALP
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The HT750 is an old 750W carvin power amp. Late 90s I think. Got it in trade for an old guitar, held on to it. Predecessor to the DCM series I think?, as the manual says "DCM" in a few places.

The patches are currently stock. I haven't had the time to mess with em much.

Also, if you haven't listened to the Behringer... give it a try. I try to judge gear by brand alone.
I try not to judge gear by brand alone. I've listened to Behringer PA speakers in GC just playing program music (CDs), and they're inaccurate. It's not unexpected either - a cheap titanium horn-loaded tweeter isn't going to be smooth. Same story with cheap Peavey, EV, JBL and Yamaha gear. That model Behringer looks to be discontinued, but its successor is a <$300 active monitor: Behringer B212D at zZounds

The Atomic is a cheap Chinese cabinet - BUT - it uses quality Eminence drivers. +2 points.

I'm sure the Carvin is fine - maybe the DCMs are a little better but most likely it was a few minor design changes and a rebranding.

Again, I think if you're missing "presence," it's some peakyness that you were used to with the other sound. I found the stock presets a bit dark with my setup, so it's no surprise that something with a smoother top end might come off as, well, smooth and dark? Try some of the brighter presets like Still Got the Blues or the cranked JCM800 sounds. Better yet, tweak the patches with a little more presence or filter out some of the low bass. See what happens. Definitely curious to hear how well you fare tuning, as I've had great success so far.

EDIT: One thing that really grinds my gears is that Atomicl simply won't post technical specifications for the Reactor cabinets. :noway: I want to see frequency response curves, driver models and efficiencies, etc. I know the woofer is a custom Eminence job and it's built closely to one of the existing models, and I had identified the Eminence tweeter at one point too, but still, I don't understand the silence.

EDIT AGAIN: I think most of the advice in this OP is both level-headed and reasonable. There's a lot of tone-snobbery around the Fractal forum, some of which I appreciate, some of which I don't, but there are solid reasons for using the most accurate and linear monitors you can afford. http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2822&hilit=behringer
 

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It's just a joke
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I try not to judge gear by brand alone. I've listened to Behringer PA speakers in GC just playing program music (CDs), and they're inaccurate. It's not unexpected either - a cheap titanium horn-loaded tweeter isn't going to be smooth. Same story with cheap Peavey, EV, JBL and Yamaha gear. That model Behringer looks to be discontinued, but its successor is a <$300 active monitor: Behringer B212D at zZounds

The Atomic is a cheap Chinese cabinet - BUT - it uses quality Eminence drivers. +2 points.

I'm sure the Carvin is fine - maybe the DCMs are a little better but most likely it was a few minor design changes and a rebranding.

Again, I think if you're missing "presence," it's some peakyness that you were used to with the other sound. I found the stock presets a bit dark with my setup, so it's no surprise that something with a smoother top end might come off as, well, smooth and dark? Try some of the brighter presets like Still Got the Blues or the cranked JCM800 sounds. Better yet, tweak the patches with a little more presence or filter out some of the low bass. See what happens. Definitely curious to hear how well you fare tuning, as I've had great success so far.

EDIT: One thing that really grinds my gears is that Atomicl simply won't post technical specifications for the Reactor cabinets. :noway: I want to see frequency response curves, driver models and efficiencies, etc. I know the woofer is a custom Eminence job and it's built closely to one of the existing models, and I had identified the Eminence tweeter at one point too, but still, I don't understand the silence.

EDIT AGAIN: I think most of the advice in this OP is both level-headed and reasonable. There's a lot of tone-snobbery around the Fractal forum, some of which I appreciate, some of which I don't, but there are solid reasons for using the most accurate and linear monitors you can afford. Fractal Audio Systems • View topic - Buying and using full range speakers: A few basics
I'll A/B with the two rigs tonight with the stock patches I like, then try tweaking things a bit, see what happens.

Even if the Behringers are a bit harsh, if it can be dialed out then for the money it is still great. They didn't SOUND harsh with what I was using, but it could also be the patches. WOrth trying.
 

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NSLALP
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I'll A/B with the two rigs tonight with the stock patches I like, then try tweaking things a bit, see what happens.

Even if the Behringers are a bit harsh, if it can be dialed out then for the money it is still great. They didn't SOUND harsh with what I was using, but it could also be the patches. WOrth trying.
One more thing I realized - you can boost the tweeter level on the Atomics a touch if you feel you're lacking some "edge" to the sound. Don't get silly, but maybe 1 or 2 o'clock? Keep in mind this will likely limit the maximum SPL of the Reactor cab, as the tweeter @ 50W, which handles a lot of the guitar signal (x-over around 1 kHz?), is likely the limiting factor in total output of the unit.

Don't smoke your tweeter. :D
 

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It's just a joke
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
One more thing I realized - you can boost the tweeter level on the Atomics a touch if you feel you're lacking some "edge" to the sound. Don't get silly, but maybe 1 or 2 o'clock? Keep in mind this will likely limit the maximum SPL of the Reactor cab, as the tweeter @ 50W, which handles a lot of the guitar signal (x-over around 1 kHz?), is likely the limiting factor in total output of the unit.

Don't smoke your tweeter. :D
I have the passive Atomic. I played with the crossover knob in the back.. didn't seem to do anything at all.

Maybe the Atomic is defective?
 

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NSLALP
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^ doubt it, unless it seriously sounds like ass. If you suspect this, try playing a CD through it and see if it sounds reasonable. You should get a considerable change in tone with the tweeter balance knob, I think there's at least +/6 dB of level adjustment?
 

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It's just a joke
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
^ doubt it, unless it seriously sounds like ass. If you suspect this, try playing a CD through it and see if it sounds reasonable. You should get a considerable change in tone with the tweeter balance knob, I think there's at least +/6 dB of level adjustment?
Uh, no. ZERO change in tone with the tweeter balance knob.

I will play some music through it when I get home. This may reveal why I thought things were lacking....
 

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Premium Member
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I've been pondering buying a Behringer powered speaker. I've never been dissatisfied with a Behringer product to date, and I've owned a lot of them.

The way I look at it is if you're gigging, you may as well be using something on par with the PA's at the type of clubs you play... and most places have cheap gear. If you dial in a perfect tone on an Atomic, FTB, whatever then the tone coming through the PA isn't going to sound as good as what is coming out of your cab...

If you dial in your tone on a Behringer or other speaker that's on par with most bar rigs, you'll have a more accurate representation of what your audience is hearing.

That said Behringer PA gear is much more neutral, flat, and smooth than I've ever seen credit given for on the interwebz. They make quality gear for poor man's budgets!

It's just a name.
 

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Mr. Negative Pants, ,
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Digital amps use switching power supplies and generally weigh a fraction of what transformer-driven amps do. My Crate PowerBlock is Class D amp, and it pumps out 75 Watts per side and weighs four pounds. I'm not sure if it's an analog or digital Class D.

According to the Behringer Spec sheet, the EPQ900 is digital and Class H, so it's super-efficient... 900 watts (peak) in a 1U rack space that weighs 10 lbs? Hell, yeah it's efficient.
 

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NSLALP
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The way I look at it is if you're gigging, you may as well be using something on par with the PA's at the type of clubs you play... and most places have cheap gear. If you dial in a perfect tone on an Atomic, FTB, whatever then the tone coming through the PA isn't going to sound as good as what is coming out of your cab...
This is an interesting point, and the other side of the argument I presented earlier. One caveat: if you plan to record, and have to tone down your treble/presence or change other parameters in order to make your Behringers and "average" house PA's sound good, you will have to tweak yet again. I believe in the other philosophy - try to get it as close to "right" as possible, especially since we can bet the soundman will do his best to fuck you anyway. :yesway:

@ Kim regarding class D amps:

Efficient, but not yet switching fast enough to smoothly replicate audio signals in the upper octave in my opinion. For guitar, I'll admit, it's not the worst thing in the world, but they get ratty and distorted in the 10-15k+ range. The weight is very attractive, but I'm fine lugging around 26 pounds for 1000 watts with a clean top end.
 

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Dream Crusher
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SMPS (switch mode power supplies) are seriously efficient and very lightweight. My Eden WT400 will pull up to 800w from the wall with a 400W rated class A/B output; a Markbass F500 (500w class D SMPS) pulls about 550W max.

Also, the SMPS Class D amps clip a lot more smoothly than a lot of A/B designs. That's why the Markbass Little Mark II/III (both of which are lightweight A/B designs) aren't quite as nice sounding at high volumes as the F1/F500.
 
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