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Obsessed by day glo Green
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So yeah, I wasn't thinking last night, put a bunch of guitars up, all with rosewood boards, and one sold pretty uickly (I think to a former member on here eelblack). ANd when i woke up this morning I remembered all the CITES stuff with regard to rosewood. Guitar in question is a 1991 540s7, so it is affected, and now I am trying to figure out what to do about it, If anyone has any pointers, they'd be appreciated!

I do get the feeling though that I may have unwittingly turned myself into a guinnea pig for this :(
 

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Obsessed by day glo Green
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Right, figured this would be useful for anyone thinking about this, but just got off the phone with APHA in the UK who have told me that:

- The US will require a certificate
- The EU hasn't listed rosewood yet, but expects to in February, so until they list it, EU trade is fine
- They cannot issue a certificate until it is listed.

So brilliantly that means I cannot acquire a certificate here in the UK, but require on for the US, but cannot possibly obtain one until February or March.

I'm getting sent the contact details for whatever agency deals with this in the US, so maybe I can find out from them if I can can get an import certificate from them... This should be fun...
Balls.
 

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Guiterrorizer
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15,696 Posts
That sounds like a headache :(.

Eelback is indeed Lee, kind of the fortress of LOLitude.
 

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Obsessed by day glo Green
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2,827 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Just got this email, kind of clarifies it, but seems like it is a bit of a mess at the moment
Dear James

THE CONVENTION ON INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN ENDANGERED SPECIES OF WILD FAUNA AND FLORA (CITES) - EC REGULATIONS 865/2006 & 338/97

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the newly listed Annex B rosewoods (Dalbergia spp).

You can make an application now; however we don't expect the EU listing to go live until early February. We have no powers to issue a permit until the EU listing comes into force.

Application form for import/re-export: Endangered species: application for import and export permit - Publications - GOV.UK

Charging: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/370422/cites-gn11.pdf

Guidance on import/export (section 8 has postal requirements): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/355266/cites-gn1.pdf

Contact details for the US CITES Management Authority:

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Division of Management Authority
MS: IA
5275 Leesburg Pike
FALLS CHURCH, VA 22041-3803

Tel: Office of the Chief: +1 (703) 358 20 93
Wildlife Trade and Conservation Branch: +1 (703) 358 20 95
Branch of Permits: 1 (800) 358 21 04 toll-free within the United States;
otherwise +1 (703) 358 21 04

Email: [email protected]
Website: U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service - International Affairs
 

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Could be Hitler
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7,666 Posts
WTF is CITES?:scratch:

Edit: nevermind I just read your post ^^^^
 

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Premium Member
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Well its a Guitar from 1991 and you have proof of that. Cant a Pic of the Neck become a certificate that the rosewood is from 26 years ago?
 

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Could be Hitler
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7,666 Posts
Well its a Guitar from 1991 and you have proof of that. Cant a Pic of the Neck become a certificate that the rosewood is from 26 years ago?
You ever been to the DMV? I doubt a pic would do it. :lol:
 

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Read Only
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10 Posts
I'd just tell Lee what's up and sell it to someone else. He's a decent dude, he only stopped posting here because he doesn't like me.
 

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Could be Hitler
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Obsessed by day glo Green
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'd just tell Lee what's up and sell it to someone else. He's a decent dude, he only stopped posting here because he doesn't like me.
Yeah already messaged him, he's cool to wait until February if he can't sort something his end in the good ole US of A.

Still going to have to pay about 60£ this end though....

Although, interestingly, doing multiple guitars can be done in one go, and will apparently cost £61 + £1.50 per additional guitar, so this whole "it's going to cost loads" excuse that I am sure manufacturers will come up with would seem a bit iffy if they're doing batches of guitars...

Hi James

You would be paying for a re-export permit (£59) and yes for an extra guitar it is £1.50.

Kind regards

Shelley Hicks

CITES Case Officer

UK CITES Management Authority
 

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Read Only
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Well in that case, it's Lee. Just sell him like 11 guitars to make it worth it, he can afford them. :lol:
 

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I don't like it.
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11,071 Posts
Yeah already messaged him, he's cool to wait until February if he can't sort something his end in the good ole US of A.

Still going to have to pay about 60£ this end though....

Although, interestingly, doing multiple guitars can be done in one go, and will apparently cost £61 + £1.50 per additional guitar, so this whole "it's going to cost loads" excuse that I am sure manufacturers will come up with would seem a bit iffy if they're doing batches of guitars...
I haven't looked into this, but was talking with a friend who works for a certain manufacturer... Manufacturers have to pay yearly for a license ($150), and pay by weight for each thing they ship. I can see it getting pretty pricey, not only in payments, but in management. I've also heard Fish & Wildlife is extremely backed up with applications, so nothing is really happening right now. It's a huge clusterfuck.
 

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Obsessed by day glo Green
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I haven't looked into this, but was talking with a friend who works for a certain manufacturer... Manufacturers have to pay yearly for a license ($150), and pay by weight for each thing they ship. I can see it getting pretty pricey, not only in payments, but in management. I've also heard Fish & Wildlife is extremely backed up with applications, so nothing is really happening right now. It's a huge clusterfuck.
Well, that's starting to sound worse, looks like there'll be little joy on the US end... :/
 

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Obsessed by day glo Green
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2,827 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Would they have really opened it up and looked to begin with?
Well, there's the thing, if they don't, everything is cool, and you win, if they do, guitar gets lost in US bureacracy, will be difficult to get back, and due to it being my fault for not having got the right documentation I end up possibly losing the guitar and having to issue a refund.

Basically, seeing as this rule has just come into effect, not worth the risk to be honest.
 

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Obsessed by day glo Green
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2,827 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Would they have really opened it up and looked to begin with?
Well, there's the thing, if they don't, everything is cool, and you win, if they do, guitar gets lost in US bureacracy, will be difficult to get back, and due to it being my fault for not having got the right documentation I end up possibly losing the guitar and having to issue a refund.

Basically, seeing as this rule has just come into effect, not worth the risk to be honest.
 

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Super Moderator
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Well, there's the thing, if they don't, everything is cool, and you win, if they do, guitar gets lost in US bureacracy, will be difficult to get back, and due to it being my fault for not having got the right documentation I end up possibly losing the guitar and having to issue a refund.

Basically, seeing as this rule has just come into effect, not worth the risk to be honest.
Well, there's the thing, if they don't, everything is cool, and you win, if they do, guitar gets lost in US bureacracy, will be difficult to get back, and due to it being my fault for not having got the right documentation I end up possibly losing the guitar and having to issue a refund.

Basically, seeing as this rule has just come into effect, not worth the risk to be honest.
How'd you manage a double post with an hour between them? :scratch:
 

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Banned
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835 Posts
You should notify the buyer that due to CITES, shipping legally is going to take a couple of months, or offer him a refund. With a major emphasis on refund.
 
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