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Tr00 Kvlt
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I wish I wouldn't have had this idea :lol: because EVERY song is going to take fucking forever to do this! :rofl: I have decided instead of using Reason 4's full orchestra sound files, I am going to construct my own orchestra from single instrument sound files, by programming using Guitar Pro, and then convert to MIDI and import the MIDI into Reason. I think in the long run it will be completely worth it and if I do it just right, will sound like a real orchestra, but its going to take so long to program every instruments parts like an orchestra would do it.

I think I am going to use this picture as a "blueprint" to figure out how many of each instrument, and panning/volume of course.


(This will also test the limits/possibly piss off my quad core processor, which so far handles all my billions of VSTs per song on guitars, Superior drummer, and Reason at around 50% the whole time),

Anyone have any suggestions on the best way to pan/mix this type of thing? I don't want it to sound like just a keyboard, I want it to sound as realistic (to an orchestra) as possible. Also, are there any ways to save CPU capacity when doing this. My computer is a badass mother fucker, but when I import close to 40 or 50 different MIDI files to Reason, that all have their own sound file, PLUS the stuff in Reaper, it may get a little iffy. :lol:
 

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Dream Crusher
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21,053 Posts
Looks like a fun project. I'm a bigger fan of the Romantic orchestra layout though, which puts the first and second violins opposite each other closest to the audience for greater separation of violin parts.
 

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Tr00 Kvlt
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Looks like a fun project. I'm a bigger fan of the Romantic orchestra layout though, which puts the first and second violins opposite each other closest to the audience for greater separation of violin parts.
Actually, you may be able to help me out on this since you are into that type of thing. :yesway: Its basically going to be a for a really heavy power metal project, with (quite) a bit of Wintersun influence... I don't want it to sound like just a keyboard on every song though, I want it to sound as close as possible to an orchestra, what would be the best layout for this? I'm tuned to A standard (7 string) sometimes Drop G (not often), so I guess I would have to really play with the EQ so its not just a giant wall of sound, and everything blends well.

This may or may not help, but I am also going to have choir voices in some songs, probably a lot of baritone choir because its so sinister sounding.
 

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Dream Crusher
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Yeah, the orchestra is pretty full-range, especially when doing something very power metal-ish. It's hard to squeeze guitars in. Listen to Metallica's "S&M" album and Nightwish's "Once" for two well-done metal + full orchestra mixes. Apparently for the actual in-the-room S&M concert though, Metallica got a little buried.

Regardless, I'd start by listening there because it will tell you a lot more than I can try to describe (hell, I barely know how to describe it anyways.)
 

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Tr00 Kvlt
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5,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah, the orchestra is pretty full-range, especially when doing something very power metal-ish. It's hard to squeeze guitars in. Listen to Metallica's "S&M" album and Nightwish's "Once" for two well-done metal + full orchestra mixes. Apparently for the actual in-the-room S&M concert though, Metallica got a little buried.

Regardless, I'd start by listening there because it will tell you a lot more than I can try to describe (hell, I barely know how to describe it anyways.)
Here's an example of what we'll be doing... SoundClick artist: Chris Stoffel - page with MP3 music downloads Imagine this with an orchestra(and falsetto vocals). :metal: Sounds pretty badass in my head, just need learn how to make it work.
 

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Prague Owlmighty
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1,770 Posts
This sounds like an amazing idea. My computer couldn't run all of that crap, that's for sure. I'm quite intrigued...
 

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Premium Member
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4,657 Posts
If you want to listen to some excellent orchestration, you should check out the newest peter gabriel cd. I've also got pretty extensive orchestra experience as a classical trumpet player, so if you have any brass questions, feel free to pm me.
 

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Devil
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1,871 Posts
Anyone have any suggestions on the best way to pan/mix this type of thing? I don't want it to sound like just a keyboard, I want it to sound as realistic (to an orchestra) as possible. Also, are there any ways to save CPU capacity when doing this. My computer is a badass mother fucker, but when I import close to 40 or 50 different MIDI files to Reason, that all have their own sound file, PLUS the stuff in Reaper, it may get a little iffy. :lol:
I think you're making this way harder than it actually is. EastWest's Symphonic Orchestra is prepanned (if that's a word) and if you're set on using reasons individual sounds, your lefts and rights aren't too difficult unless you want to EQ/reverb a fake distance.

Sequencing in Gpro and exporting as a midi is an excellent idea, but if you're going for realism, you're going to run into a huge problem:

Articulations.

There is no one single patch you can use (especially for solo or small groups of instruments) for everything from a fast run up a scale to a long droning note. You're going to end up pulling tracks apart note by note in some cases. Take for an absurdly simple example of a violin section that has 3 bars of quarter notes and the 4th bar has... I dunno some kind of flamboyant fill with rhythmic stops in the midst of some legato runs. That 4th bar would probably be not only your current patch but a few additional channels below it handling the articulations.

I really hope that makes sense. Hard to communicate this via text.

In short, your one violin may be 4 different tracks.

Edit: oh yeah... And you sound like you want to make more midi tracks than needed. Take them in small chunks. Your second section of violins is more than likely all playing the same thing. No need to make 12 tracks of it you know?
 

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Head of Agile Gestapo
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5,675 Posts
Please keep up posted on this. :metal:
 

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Tr00 Kvlt
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5,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think you're making this way harder than it actually is. EastWest's Symphonic Orchestra is prepanned (if that's a word) and if you're set on using reasons individual sounds, your lefts and rights aren't too difficult unless you want to EQ/reverb a fake distance.

Sequencing in Gpro and exporting as a midi is an excellent idea, but if you're going for realism, you're going to run into a huge problem:

Articulations.

There is no one single patch you can use (especially for solo or small groups of instruments) for everything from a fast run up a scale to a long droning note. You're going to end up pulling tracks apart note by note in some cases. Take for an absurdly simple example of a violin section that has 3 bars of quarter notes and the 4th bar has... I dunno some kind of flamboyant fill with rhythmic stops in the midst of some legato runs. That 4th bar would probably be not only your current patch but a few additional channels below it handling the articulations.

I really hope that makes sense. Hard to communicate this via text.

In short, your one violin may be 4 different tracks.

Edit: oh yeah... And you sound like you want to make more midi tracks than needed. Take them in small chunks. Your second section of violins is more than likely all playing the same thing. No need to make 12 tracks of it you know?
Very good info. I do realize that the violins, cellos, etc will generally be doing the same thing so I will be duplicating the MIDI files for each instrument/instrument section. I may trying using some of the patches that are violins, cellos, etc instead of ALL individual instruments, because lets face it...my computer is a badass, but 84+ instruments PLUS Choir, PLUS whatever else I have going on in reaper? Thats a Lot of shit! I would like to eq/reverb in attempt to fake distance. Its going to be at least a few weeks before I start fooling with this. I don't have much material for this power metal project yet and I also have to learn EastWest's Symphonic Choir/Word Builder :metal: that I will also be using (mainly Bass Choirs....yes a choir of Peter Steele's[RIP] :lol:)
 

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Dream Crusher
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21,053 Posts
A mild chorus/delay/stereo panning effect and some large hall-style reverb makes a small MIDI string arrangement sound MUCH bigger.
 
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