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Reverend Secret Flower
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So in all my years of playing, I learned how to play very tight and clean. I rode Petrucci's wang on Images and Words and basically started with a proggy background that was about precision.

In the last few years I'v been listening to alot more music that is more about the raw atmosphere that a single take can have and not about hitting everything straight on the nose.

Much of the progressive black metal stuff has that sort of vibe with weird bends that arnt necessarily repeatable because they were based on feel and not on beat.

In essence, I have been working on dirtying up my playing to get that specific atmospheric and textured type sound.

So basically my question is, when your playing something that has unique parts to the individual takes that arnt really reapeatable or almost impossible to repeat, how do you double track that? I assume you dont. Do these bands just go with one take and beef it up in post? Double tracking clean and more on the beat/repeatable stuff was never an issue for me, but I'm not sure what the best course of action is fpr this sort of thing.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about musically, this is an example.

(How do you embed youtube vids? :lol:)
 

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Super Moderator
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well, you just play it twice.


i'm not even joking. play it twice. the parts will line up a bit and be a little out but that is usually ok especially for this type of music. it creates a mood and a feel that can be super sweet.
 

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Reverend Secret Flower
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
well, you just play it twice.

i'm not even joking. play it twice. the parts will line up a bit and be a little out but that is usually ok especially for this type of music. it creates a mood and a feel that can be super sweet.
I had trouble with it getting too messy. I double tracked 2 left and 2 right, and between all that, it seemed like some of the cool shit on each of the tracks got diluted by all the other ones. Its probably exactly what I'm going for but I'm too anal and am trying to make it sound cleaner. :lol:
 

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Wirelessly posted (Wondernuts)

Record a DI af your guitar and do it that way. Easy double tracking that means you can still get things clean enough with your wanted sloppy playing.
 

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Look what I can do
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Are you suggesting he record a di track and then reamp that as his second track? Hello phase issues. The thickness of double tracking comes from the two separate performances way more than it does from just having two amp tones.

If it were me I would just play along with the track until I figured out exactly what I did where and was able to reproduce it.
 

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Wirelessly posted (Wondernuts)

ChainOfThought said:
Are you suggesting he record a di track and then reamp that as his second track? Hello phase issues. The thickness of double tracking comes from the two separate performances way more than it does from just having two amp tones.

If it were me I would just play along with the track until I figured out exactly what I did where and was able to reproduce it.
If you're getting phase issues, you're doing it wrong. And yes. I'm suggesting he use a DI because it's what I used to do when I ran a small studio and had guys who played a live feel. It's much like the Beatles who used auto double tracking which was nothing more than recording to two separate tape machine running at different speeds to provide different tonalities and speed up time in the studio.

Yes it's the same guitar, but through different amps, mics or cabs it adds that thickness in spades whilst keeping it tight, even with the most louche of playing.
 

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Look what I can do
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Wirelessly posted (Wondernuts)

If you're getting phase issues, you're doing it wrong. And yes. I'm suggesting he use a DI because it's what I used to do when I ran a small studio and had guys who played a live feel. It's much like the Beatles who used auto double tracking which was nothing more than recording to two separate tape machine running at different speeds to provide different tonalities and speed up time in the studio.

Yes it's the same guitar, but through different amps, mics or cabs it adds that thickness in spades whilst keeping it tight, even with the most louche of playing.
I get what you're saying it's just never worked for me I guess. I've never actually seen someone prescribe that advice. With identical signals the tracks have a tendency to mono out. I guess if you use amp tones that are different enough it work out. Currently I'm on a kick of using the same patch and same guitar for both tracks. Different ways to skin a cat. I'll have to give your method a shot next time I'm home.
 

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What about blending a wet and dry guitar track? One distorted and one direct from the guitar to mixer, to give it some clarity? Might let you beef up the amp tone a bit for thickness without loosing clarity?
 

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Sir Groove-A-Lot
Charvel So Cal & San Dimas
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Only way to do this is to play it twice, don't copy/paste as it simply doesn't work, not in a proper stereo context. You can force it to work by dragging one back in time a few milliseconds but there will always be some phasing or "big mono" as it's known.

If you're the only guitarist in a band/recording project you need to think like two guitarists. When I'm producing a band with two guitarists the stereo spectrum is split L/R and they each take a side. This gives the best dynamic result and feels most like an actual band. Each side of the stereo spectrum now has different dynamics, different attack, and hopefully different guitars/rigs.

You need to essentially do the same thing, but in order to do so you kinda have to forget the other side exists, so ignore it. Start with the left track, get it how you like it and finalise it. Then mute the fucker and ignore it. If you don't over-think it and you do both performances off the cuff they will be similar enough to not sound shit, but different enough to have the desired effect.
 

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is on drug whatever
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Only way to do this is to play it twice, don't copy/paste as it simply doesn't work, not in a proper stereo context. You can force it to work by dragging one back in time a few milliseconds but there will always be some phasing or "big mono" as it's known.

If you're the only guitarist in a band/recording project you need to think like two guitarists. When I'm producing a band with two guitarists the stereo spectrum is split L/R and they each take a side. This gives the best dynamic result and feels most like an actual band. Each side of the stereo spectrum now has different dynamics, different attack, and hopefully different guitars/rigs.

You need to essentially do the same thing, but in order to do so you kinda have to forget the other side exists, so ignore it. Start with the left track, get it how you like it and finalise it. Then mute the fucker and ignore it. If you don't over-think it and you do both performances off the cuff they will be similar enough to not sound shit, but different enough to have the desired effect.
Matt is now an expert on recording sloppy players, having recorded my bands album. :lol:
 

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Matt pretty much nailed it, if you want conventional doubles.

Also 'big mono' :lol: Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Taking a performance and running it through two or more bits of gear or delaying one of them isn't doubling. Big mono is exactly what it is.

You could of course take a leaf from all shall perish and behemoths book and have one guitar on one side keep everything pinned down with the main rhythm while the other side goes off on one for a couple of bars. Or you could play two accurate tracks either side and stick a sloppier, different track down the centre.

Or you could just not give a shit. If you want to be sloppy, accurately doubling slop seems a bit contradictory. Play the slop sloppily twice and let the chips fall where they will.
 

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Wirelessly posted (Wondernuts)

Fuck, let me clarify. Track twice, then reamp on top of you're having difficulty tracking 4 times. One track each side and if they're off you get he whole Appetite for Destruction vibe going on. I've driven 1000km today and have to do it again tomorrow so I'm not quite so good with making my points.

Just reamping one take over and over isn't a great sound and wasn't what I was trying to suggest.
 

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Id echo just play it twice.

id also say that the guys in the bands you are thinking of are probably a lot more capable of playing the same thing twice or as many times as they like than you'd think. The likes of Deathspell are absolute beasts on their instruments and a lot of black metal players are even though their music might not sound that way due to how raw it is at times.
 

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Just play it twice. Reamping the same take isn't going to do it, it's going to sound like sterile, phase-y balls.
 
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