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Hates Richie Kotzen
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Discussion Starter #1
Holy fuck are they moving fast. :lol:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/13/technology/apple-fortnite-ban.html

Fortnite developer Epic is suing Apple and Google after both pulled Epic's hit game from their app stores over direct-payment disputes. As of right now, neither are allowing users to download and install Fortnite on phones through their digital marketplaces.

At the heart of the debate is whether Epic has the right to include a direct-payments service in its Fortnite app, circumventing Apple's and Google's payments systems and the up to 30% charge Apple and Google levy on each transaction.
I don't fanboy any company, and that video is dumb as fuck, no clue what Fortnite is still, but that is certainly one hell of a risky powerplay.

Epic Games is massive, and a lot of that power was consolidated relatively quickly, even though they've been around for fucking ever making Unreal Tournament, but taking on Apple and Google while still taking on Valve is........ well......

 

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Hates Richie Kotzen
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Discussion Starter #2
Also worth noting, for those who don't keep up on tech industry minutae, there's a great deal of speculation that Epic Games has an ace in the hole due to the fact they are pushing really hard to getting Unreal Engine used in TV and Movie more and more as time goes on.

Not without success either. The Mandalorian uses Unreal Engine heavily. Unreal Engine is obviously a pretty big force in gaming, but supposedly Epic wants to see more of that sweet TV/Movie money.

That doesn't get mentioned as much as the Fortnite cultural phenomenon or Tencent shit in articles about their recent rise to prominence, but a lot of people are guessing they are going to leverage that.

I don't know if any of that is enough for them to come out ahead here. :lol: But it's certainly a hell of a chance they are taking. I've seen people call it a "genius anti trust trap". Not sure I would say that, but it's certainly ridiculously ballsy.
 

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Dream Crusher
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They have some big deal antitrust lawyers on this. A colleague of mine just went there too. Interested to see how this goes.
 

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I just want whoever to sue whoever as long as it's what it takes to get us HL3. :(

Though it's 2020, so they'll probably release it next month with Gilbert Godfried doing all the voice acting and the Game of Thrones S8 team doing the writing.
 

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Hates Richie Kotzen
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Discussion Starter #5
They have some big deal antitrust lawyers on this. A colleague of mine just went there too. Interested to see how this goes.
It's certainly very difficult to suss out what their endgame is here. :lol: The anti-trust angle is weird, because Apple and Google are going to fight it like crazy, since if Epic won it would set a precedent that would apply to all apps, not just Epics. So it's somewhat obvious their master plan is something other than "let Apple and google allow us to circumvent their cut on in app purchases".

As far as the film making side of things goes, which is only one part of a much more complicated picture, now was the time to hit, since coronavirus has stalled a lot of other more traditional production techniques. https://variety.com/2020/tv/global/mandalorian-style-led-volume-orca-studios-opens-spain-1234624036/

Apple and Google are both fucking giants, but Epic is also associated with Disney and Amazon. So I wouldn't be surprised to see them get dragged into this someone. Most of the shows using the new cutting edge Unreal stuff are on Disney and Amazon obviously owns Twitch, which is heavily affiliated with Fortnite, not to mention other connections.

What they are trying to do looks insane, but they haven't tipped their hand either, so who knows. Certainly a situation heavy on intrigue from multiple angles. There's also the funding/ownership from China angle.

It wasn't a fast developing story either. It was all pre coregraphed. Epic knew exactly what was coming. They rolled out their incredibly stupid "Apple =1984" video like, 45 seconds after the news broke.


So they are also working on weaponizing the "Apple = pretentious totalitarian dicks/Epic = cool guys with troll humor" angle.
 

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Hates Richie Kotzen
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Discussion Starter #6
I just want whoever to sue whoever as long as it's what it takes to get us HL3. :(

Though it's 2020, so they'll probably release it next month with Gilbert Godfried doing all the voice acting and the Game of Thrones S8 team doing the writing.
Did you not see Half Life Alyx? VR only. That's Steam's current scheming to get VR to break through, make Half Life VR exclusive.

I'm not for any of the companies in terms of their business squabbles. I have Epic Game Store for Outer Worlds and Borderlands 3, don't like it as much as steam, but it's no big deal.

Epic's scheming is certainly very GoT. I have fond memories of Untreal Tournament and shit like that, but whatever they are now is a different, much bigger and more ambitious things. Some of their fuckery is very hard to figure out the motivation for. But maybe they have a brilliant master plan?

Epic has an insane amount of funding though. Epic games store is always giving games away for free and doing exclusive deals. They are certainly pushing for something big in terms of a bigger slice of the market.
 

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Señor Member
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Not in my wheelhouse but isn't there a beef between Microsoft and Apple over Apple blocking their game streaming app? Can't speak for Android but Apple seemingly try to be very aggressive against any third party gaming apps that aren't monetized directly through the App Store.
 

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Is Actually Recording
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It wasn't a fast developing story either. It was all pre coregraphed. Epic knew exactly what was coming. They rolled out their incredibly stupid "Apple =1984" video like, 45 seconds after the news broke.
I assume you know this, but this is a direct takedown of Apple's own anti-PC 1984 themed ad they ran back in 1984.

Not in my wheelhouse but isn't there a beef between Microsoft and Apple over Apple blocking their game streaming app? Can't speak for Android but Apple seemingly try to be very aggressive against any third party gaming apps that aren't monetized directly through the App Store.
This is the crux of the case - whether or not Apple blocking any game that allows direct-to-developer in-game purchases rather than purchases through the App Store (where they get a hefty 30% cut) constitutes a monopoly and unfair competitive practices. Lots of companies have grumbled about this quietly for a while, but this is the first time someone's gone after them openly, with this high a profile.
 

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:wub: HL1. My college freshman year GPA was a 0.9 in part due to that game :lol:

I tried to play HL2, but just couldn't get into it.

I like to think that BL1 is really what HL2 should have been, and BL2/2.5/3 are just cartoony versions we don't really need as much as a solid HL3.
 

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Dream Crusher
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Given that Epic is rolling in Fortnite money (which now includes things like concerts and other media events) they're probably pretty well situated to fund the fight :shrug:
 

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glass enthusiast
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Got this in my work newsletter this morning. Thought it was pretty retarded.

Like, yeah, sure 30% is a steep commission, but that does take for granted being on one of the largest and well-trusted digital marketplaces, at least within the mobile space.
Epic Games could handle this far better than picking a fight with a tech giant that's way bigger than them, especially when it's not like they're short on cash themselves. Video was stupid and childish
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Got this in my work newsletter this morning. Thought it was pretty retarded.

Like, yeah, sure 30% is a steep commission, but that does take for granted being on one of the largest and well-trusted digital marketplaces, at least within the mobile space.
Epic Games could handle this far better than picking a fight with a tech giant that's way bigger than them, especially when it's not like they're short on cash themselves. Video was stupid and childish
The video was I believe a shot-for-shot remake of Apple's famous 1984 ad positioning themselves as an alternative to PCs. If you think the video itself is strange and sort of out of left field, that's why - I think a LOT of people aren't catching the reference,b ut you know damned sure Apple is.

And, honestly, Epic may be playing this very aggressively and is kinda trolling Apple here, but they've got a point - Apple takes a 30% cut of all app store revenue, including in-game purchases. You guys were all up in arms about Reverb going from a 3.5% to a 5% commission, and that's a fraction of what Apple is charging, for access to a network that you pretty much NEED to be on to be viable as a developer. There's a pretty strong case to be made that this 30% commission is NOT a market-tested level, that they're taking advantage of an oligopoly with their pricing practice, and that because app developers need to set a customer-facing price nearly 50% higher than what they actually receive, it's fairly probable that customers are paying higher prices than they otherwise would if Apple charged something lower, like say Reverb's 5% (which you all still think is highway robbery).

Apple needs content for their store to be viable, but thus far they've been at a huge advantage relative to developers in that they are exponentially larger and more powerful, and better able to dictate the terms of participation. Lots of large developers have quietly wanted to do this, but now that Epic has been rolling in cash from Fortnight, they think they actually have the firepower to see this through the courts. I could definitely see them winning.
 

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MG.ORG Irregular
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Apple is scamming the fuck out of people and printing money which is unsurprising, they're one of the most scummy companies around.
 

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Hates Richie Kotzen
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Discussion Starter #16
Microsoft has been dragged into it, unsurprisingly. I wouldn't be surprised it Amazon, Disney, Netflix, etc. etc. got involved too. Specifically Amazon.

https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/24/apple-epic-unreal-engine-fortnite/

Also, I clicked on that link because it showed up on my news.google aggregator. From now on I am reading all my news about this on 9to5mac.com.

The comments are hilarious. Just in case you thought the "militant Apple fanboys/Mac cult of personality" thing was an overblown caricature that doesn't actually exist.
 

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Is Actually Recording
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The comments are hilarious. Just in case you thought the "militant Apple fanboys/Mac cult of personality" thing was an overblown caricature that doesn't actually exist.
Of course it's a real thing that exists. HAve you read this forum?

...I write on my MacBook Pro while my iPhone X charges next to me, while my iMac in the other room is hooked up to a mountain of recording gear that would be too distracting for WFH.
 

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Of course it's a real thing that exists. HAve you read this forum?

...I write on my MacBook Pro while my iPhone X charges next to me, while my iMac in the other room is hooked up to a mountain of recording gear that would be too distracting for WFH.
Eh, my house is chock full of Mac stuff and I don't identify with the people that Garrett is describing. :lol: The Apple nuts are a different breed altogether.

I have 25+ years in IT, a masters degree and more industry chicklet certifications than most of this forum combined. I built my first PC in 1986, before the internet, before newegg, before Tom's Hardware and even before fucking modems. My first career job was as a desktop support tech, upgrading computers TO Windows 95. Using floppies. I've build hundreds since then, probably closer to a thousand, with budgets and specs that can run Crysis twice. I have seen, built and used every manner of high end desktop system there is. And after all of my years working with PCs, my home is full of Apple stuff.

Because Windows is shit and so is the cluttered fucking mess that makes up the PC hardware ecosystem. It was shit in the past, it is currently shit, and will always be shit. It's a goddamn sea of incompetent vendors and developers, with a million different teams making hardware, firmware, drivers, etc etc ad nauseum that only barely has to function correctly before they stamp it and ship it. It's like having a car made by 50 different auto manufacturers at once, none of which ever talk to each other until final assembly. It's rubbish.

If you want your shit to just fucking work, buy a Mac. Period. Anyone who says otherwise isn't a power user. Someone who builds a handful of PCs from pcpartpicker and runs Fallout on it isn't a power user. If all you do is run Steam and Microsoft Outlook, you aren't a power user. These people are noobs who went online and overbought shitty hardware so they could try to overcome the trash operating system that runs on it, and then convinced themselves that it's not a placebo effect because their l33t overclocking tool tells them it's .0001% faster for only 4 times the price of what they actually need.

It's like the old saying - if you want to know what the most reliable car to buy is you don't ask your mechanic what he works on. You look at what he drives. I don't love Apple stuff because I want to wear a turtleneck with my iWatch and roleplay that I'm Steve Jobs. I love Apple stuff because it does away with 99.999% of the bullshit associated with PCs.
 

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Is Actually Recording
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It's like the old saying - if you want to know what the most reliable car to buy is you don't ask your mechanic what he works on. You look at what he drives. I don't love Apple stuff because I want to wear a turtleneck with my iWatch and roleplay that I'm Steve Jobs. I love Apple stuff because it does away with 99.999% of the bullshit associated with PCs.
Hey, you sold me on them too, and they're dependable as hell - my iMac is a 2012, I think, and still runs flawlessly.

But maybe more so at the old /7/ days we definitely had our share of Apple nutjobs, and I was never under the impression that the clishe about militant Apple nuts was anything other than 100% accurate, lol.
 

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Hey, you sold me on them too, and they're dependable as hell - my iMac is a 2012, I think, and still runs flawlessly.

But maybe more so at the old /7/ days we definitely had our share of Apple nutjobs, and I was never under the impression that the clishe about militant Apple nuts was anything other than 100% accurate, lol.
Jeff vs Hebo round 1000

My PC is also working just fine after 6 years. If you don't buy the cheapest shit and know what you're doing a PC will work just fine for way cheaper than a Mac. I do recognize that Apple has some advantages when it comes to ease of use and so on, but I wouldn't say PC's are hard to use anymore in any way.
 
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