Metal Guitarist Forums banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
NSLALP
Joined
·
13,286 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Google scares the SHIT out of me. This popped up from their news service at the bottom for me.

Invention Awards: A Bridge That Keeps Guitars Always in Tune | Popular Science

http://evertune.com/

"Guitar strings need constant tension to stay tuned, but they're easily loosened or tightened if the temperature changes, the instrument gets knocked around, or the guitarist just plays too hard. In an EverTune-equipped guitar, the bridge, which holds the strings in place, contains six spring-and-lever contraptions, one at the end of each string. These keep the strings' tension constant even if the tuning pegs get turned or the strings become loosened or tightened accidentally." :leon:

 

·
...
Joined
·
18,790 Posts
Looking at that diagram...what's the difference between that and a tremolo bridge, other than the fact that each string gets its own spring?

I guess what I'm saying is: that won't work :lol:

After watching the demo video:
Every time the saddle moves, the action and intonation will be wrong. Plus you can't bend notes except in certain settings?
 

·
NSLALP
Joined
·
13,286 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Looking at that diagram...what's the difference between that and a tremolo bridge, other than the fact that each string gets its own spring?

I guess what I'm saying is: that won't work :lol:
One small difference: the bridge is fixed.

It prevents strings from falling slack. It will not prevent the strings from going higher if you adjust it a certain way (so bends are possible, but you have to set it up correctly).
 

·
NSLALP
Joined
·
13,286 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
But the saddles are not fixed.
That is true, so they advise not touching the hex keys on the saddles while playing (or you can for some slight whammy bar action).

The system makes sense to me. The spring on each string will add force according to Hooke's law to counteract the force "lost" by the string going flat. It is an anchored system internally, so the system will return to the tensions you have set as long as the spring remains elastic and has travel room left.
 

·
SPEEEEED HOOOOLES!!!
Joined
·
1,075 Posts
That is true, so they advise not touching the hex keys on the saddles while playing (or you can for some slight whammy bar action).

The system makes sense to me. The spring on each string will add force according to Hooke's law to counteract the force "lost" by the string going flat. It is an anchored system internally, so the system will return to the tensions you have set as long as the spring remains elastic and has travel room left.
I'm a little confused as well. if you take a regular trem, put one spring on it and one string then set it up so that the trem sits flat, if you tune the string up, it'll pull on the spring and the note will go sharp. How does this system prevent that?

any science nuts out there care to elaborate?

Does the string actually rotate on the saddles as the tension increases and decreases? that would totally do it.
 

·
NSLALP
Joined
·
13,286 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The saddles are spring-loaded. :shrug: In a trem, the bridge is spring-loaded. Since there's now an anchor point, the string is free to be tuned to any tension/pitch by adjusting the spring tension. But the spring will not be re-adjusted by changing the tuning peg or slackening the string (within travel of the spring) because it will "fight back".

The disadvantage I see is if you expose the guitar to a temperature/humidity increase, the neck swells and sharpens the strings/removes relief. I don't see the EverTune compensating for that. So you'd have to follow standard practice letting your guitar warm up before tuning.
 

·
Slow Money
Joined
·
14,612 Posts
any science nuts out there care to elaborate?
unless everything i learned in mechanics class is wrong, it wont!
If you pull on a spring, it doesnt keep you from pulling, it just means the same amount of force pulling on a looser object goes further than on a tighter one. Expecting to pull on a spring and have the spring say "OH SHIT SELF, THATS 2 EXTRA POUNDS OF TENSION, RESPOND WITH 2 POUNDS OF TENSION QUICK ALL ASAP LIKE" is fucking insane. In face, pulling on a solid object (like a normal fucking hardtail lol) will allow LESS movement do to increased tension.

Going the other way (say your strings stretch and go flat) doesnt work either. they go down, their is less tension, the spring pulls and adds more. Ok yeah, weve got progress in the right direction. Now, to make this actually work, there should be a balance to how much tension is lost and added. What youd need to do, is get a quite accurate length of the spring under no external tension, the longest length when its in tune (longest it would reasonably be), and find the exact spring constant that would balance this out with the string. this would have to be done very exactingly for every string, and every gauge or brand change would necessitate a redo.
And better yet, because the lengths and spring constants are so different, youd need a way for the spring constant on the spring to change non-linearly as the length grows/shrinks, which, if youve not gotten past Hysterios (where the spring is stretched to far and goes nuts (yes, as in hysteria, and hystorectomy, which are rather insultingly not separate)), it doesnt. Its constant. it doesnt even change linearly.
Another problem :oops:

Is it viable? Yes. Is it likely? About as me being contracted to airbrush the entire next years of victorias secret catalog shoots in MS Paint.

For the hassle in setting it up, your honestly far better off with a fixed bridge. Clever idea that wasnt thought through nearly enough and thereby i promise suffers a poor execution
 

·
NSLALP
Joined
·
13,286 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What youd need to do, is get a quite accurate length of the spring under no external tension, the longest length when its in tune (longest it would reasonably be), and find the exact spring constant that would balance this out with the string. this would have to be done very exactingly for every string, and every gauge or brand change would necessitate a redo.
Why would you have to do that? If the spring constant is such that it overpowers the typical out-of-tune tension differences that a string will exert, can't it simply compensate with brute force to slackening? i.e. the string loses 0.200 lbs, the system adds 0.194 lbs back (or whatever). I don't see why the Hooke's constant has to be tuned. Doesn't it have to just be sufficiently high? Imagine if it were hooked to a massive spring?

I really see this working - though the claims of "ever tune" are surely not accurate. It must go slightly out of tune very slowly. I have obviously never used one, but it seems very cool and they're winning PopSci awards and picking up artists who have no incentive to adopt something as wacky as this if it doesn't work right (it sure doesn't make you look cool... :rolleyes:)

Am I off?
 

·
NSLALP
Joined
·
13,286 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
The main issue is that, even if it manages to keep it in tune, it won't sound or feel like a guitar anymore.
Why? It should sound like a guitar with a vintage tremolo. I can see bends being a little weird, but I'm not sure.

EDIT: This video shows it fairly well I think. Just checked it out on my phone. Just enough, he slackens the string several steps from the looks of it, no pitch change. He brings it above the set pitch and it starts to raise, then he let it settle back down and it was locked in again.

DOUBLE EDIT: So nobody thinks this is cool? I just linked to it because I think it's neat. :(


 

·
I am Groot
Joined
·
32,450 Posts
Honestly, it looks like a lot of engineering to fix something that I don't think is a problem.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,695 Posts
They need to spend all that R&D time and money on a whoop whoop for me that shifts multiple octaves. (And no, a DT Whammy is not the same thing unless you like Nintendo bends.)

Now THAT is useful. :hsquid:
 

·
...
Joined
·
18,790 Posts
I still don't understand how you wouldn't have to fix your intonation/action every time those saddles move.

I mean, that video shows that it works on open strings, but I still don't understand how or why it works :lol: I mean, when you play hard on a trem equipped guitar, the strings bend out of tune. This supposedly uses the same technology to get the opposite effect. :lol:
 

·
I am Groot
Joined
·
32,450 Posts
I still don't understand how you wouldn't have to fix your intonation/action every time those saddles move.
They must have figured it out, or no one would want the damn thing. It must be something with the balance, where if you detune a string, it wants to pull the saddle forward, so the spring pulls the saddle back. After all, the saddle doesn't raise into proper position until a minimum amount of tension is on it.
 

·
Slow Money
Joined
·
14,612 Posts
Wirelessly posted (Hivemind: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

Soopahmahn said:
What youd need to do, is get a quite accurate length of the spring under no external tension, the longest length when its in tune (longest it would reasonably be), and find the exact spring constant that would balance this out with the string. this would have to be done very exactingly for every string, and every gauge or brand change would necessitate a redo.
Why would you have to do that? If the spring constant is such that it overpowers the typical out-of-tune tension differences that a string will exert, can't it simply compensate with brute force to slackening? i.e. the string loses 0.200 lbs, the system adds 0.194 lbs back (or whatever). I don't see why the Hooke's constant has to be tuned. Doesn't it have to just be sufficiently high? Imagine if it were hooked to a massive spring?

I really see this working - though the claims of "ever tune" are surely not accurate. It must go slightly out of tune very slowly. I have obviously never used one, but it seems very cool and they're winning PopSci awards and picking up artists who have no incentive to adopt something as wacky as this if it doesn't work right (it sure doesn't make you look cool... :rolleyes:)

Am I off?
You are in fact off lol.

If the spring is significantly tighter than the spring as you proposed, then one of two situations is happening.

1) The spring is still stretched out, but pulling way harder than the string, which is at this exact moment in tune, or somewhat sharp. At this point it's in motion, and they move till it's balanced. The string is now pulled significantly sharp.

2) the spring is contracted entirely in it's resting state, and the stretch on it from the string tension is none/negligble. you now have a hardtail that's slightly less stable than a standard hardtail.
 

·
Slow Money
Joined
·
14,612 Posts
Wirelessly posted (Hivemind: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

noodles said:
I still don't understand how you wouldn't have to fix your intonation/action every time those saddles move.
They must have figured it out, or no one would want the damn thing. It must be something with the balance, where if you detune a string, it wants to pull the saddle forward, so the spring pulls the saddle back. After all, the saddle doesn't raise into proper position until a minimum amount of tension is on it.
People have figured it out before. The transtrem works wonderfully. Further inspection tells me these guys didn't. Why do people still want it then?

People elected him for a second term, but I don't think Georg. "figured it out" either (at least not til way later :lol:)
 

·
NSLALP
Joined
·
13,286 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You are in fact off lol.

If the spring is significantly tighter than the spring as you proposed, then one of two situations is happening.

1) The spring is still stretched out, but pulling way harder than the string, which is at this exact moment in tune, or somewhat sharp. At this point it's in motion, and they move till it's balanced. The string is now pulled significantly sharp.

2) the spring is contracted entirely in it's resting state, and the stretch on it from the string tension is none/negligble. you now have a hardtail that's slightly less stable than a standard hardtail.
You use the hex key to adjust the spring tension to set a given pitch/tension balance. Doesn't the video demonstrate this? Agreed that scenario 2) won't do jack shit.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top