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Sir Groove-A-Lot
Charvel So Cal & San Dimas
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm sure a lot of you know this guy by now, he seems to be gaining popularity fast, and rightly so, he's great. Basically just cranks plexis all day long.

Anyway, this is depressing but hey we all knew it...

 

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I am Groot
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32,450 Posts
I’ll have to watch this later, but is it really tone loss or just different? I wouldn’t expect it to still sound the same after hogging out a bunch of wood for the spring cavity and baseplate recess.

This is what’s great about the FRX. No routing, so the tone is pretty much unchanged. Maybe a touch brighter, since so much steel is added.
 

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Sir Groove-A-Lot
Charvel So Cal & San Dimas
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'll have to watch this later, but is it really tone loss or just different? I wouldn't expect it to still sound the same after hogging out a bunch of wood for the spring cavity and baseplate recess.

This is what's great about the FRX. No routing, so the tone is pretty much unchanged. Maybe a touch brighter, since so much steel is added.
Yeah I guess whether it's considered "loss" or just "different" is subjective.

I definitely prefer the punch and sustain of a TOM to a Floyd, but I'll be fucked if I'm ever ditching a Floyd guitar as my main axe. It's just what I've used since day one and what feels like home to me. There are workarounds, namely pickups. What suits a Floyd'ed guitar might not suit a TOM and vice-versa. You just gotta work with what you've got.

You can definitely hear the TOM is noticeably more twangy and boingy, retaining more of the string's energy. Makes for a clearer tone. The Floyd typically soaks it up (or the springs do, rather) resulting in a "softening" of the tone, which is consistent with my experience when comparing the two.

I'm a complete sustain block skeptic so before anybody starts crowing about that shit just accept that you take a hit with Floyds and that's that :lol: Doesn't make them any less awesome, and there are just as many toneful Floyds as there are dead planks with TOMs.
 

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Premium Member
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7,286 Posts
I fucking hate this whole "this miniscule difference in tone is HUGE and affects my whole life and guitar buying decisions bohooo" thing.

FUCK THIS MEANINGLESS SHIT!

ROCK THE FUCK OUT, HAVE FUN, STOP WASTING TIME!!!!

But ok, to answer the thread because everybody seems so eager to hear my opinion:

Nothing wrong here.

Tone loss? A minimal treble loss. That is ALL.

The tonal differences are exactly what I got when I compared a Gotoh hardtail to a Floyd Rose which I made a video about.
The Floyd tone was a little DULLER despite the internet wisdom of "floyds sounding thin and bright". Stupid internet wisdoms.
And it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the "wood chopped away". I have already debunked the whole "tone affected by chopping away wood" thing.

It's all about the bridge material.

I definitely prefer the punch and sustain of a TOM to a Floyd
There's no rule that a TOM would have more sustain than a FR.


Also, stop wasting time on stupid shit like this and ROCK OUT instead.

Why care about miniscule differences in "tone and sustain" when you can ROCK OUT instead?!?!?!

Just like I sing in this song:


Lyrics from last verse:

You have the lust to rock
You gotta rock as fuck
Dont waste your time on stupid shit


THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD CARE ABOUT!!!!

ROCKING OUT!!!

WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT SOME STUPID MINISCULE MICROSCOPIC DIFFERENCES IN TONE!!!!

STOP WASTING TIME!!!!
 

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Sir Groove-A-Lot
Charvel So Cal & San Dimas
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6,916 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Dude I'm at work, I'm not chosing to watch this shit instead of "rocking out" :lol: I'm watching/sharing/discussing guitar-related stuff because I haven't got a guitar next to me. This shit really doesn't matter, you're right, but this is a guitar forum, so drop that shit.

FWIW I did say:

me said:
I definitely prefer the punch and sustain of a TOM to a Floyd, but I'll be fucked if I'm ever ditching a Floyd guitar as my main axe.
Even though I think TOM's yield better tonal properties, it doesn't stop me using a Floyd :shrug: I honestly don't care about the differences, and I don't let it stop me using what I use. But to deny that there's a difference or that the differences matter is dumb. They're night and day.

Also...

It's all about the bridge material
I don't think it's entirely down to that, really. I think it's about the fact that the strings are terminated in something that's suspended on springs, which is soaking up the energy of the string. If it's solid both ends then the string's energy has nowhere to escape, therefore can vibrate for longer.

Just a theory of course. I haven't spent the time and energy to experiment with that theory. Because I've been busy. Rocking out.
 

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Premium Member
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I don't think it's entirely down to that, really. I think it's about the fact that the strings are terminated in something that's suspended on springs, which is soaking up the energy of the string. If it's solid both ends then the string's energy has nowhere to escape, therefore can vibrate for longer.

Just a theory of course. I haven't spent the time and energy to experiment with that theory. Because I've been busy. Rocking out.
Yes, in theory.

But Darrel Brauns video shows that Ibanez with an Edge bridge (basically a FR) can have LONGER sustain than a Gibson Les Paul!

There's absolutely no rules to this. You basically never know how a guitars sustain gonna be.

All of my Evertune guitars have had short sustain because of the individual vibrating saddles.

BUT I DONT CARE.I choose to ROCK OUT instead, and embrace the tuning stability and dont give a shit about sustain loss!

ROCKING OUT = HAVING FUN = NOT WASTING TIME
 

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Señor Member
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12,297 Posts
I'm a complete sustain block skeptic so before anybody starts crowing about that shit just accept that you take a hit with Floyds and that's that :lol:
"Sustain block" is probably a misnomer. I think the weak point in an FR is probably the transfer through the springs (as you outlined) but those stock blocks are kinda dinky and zinc is a fairly pourous, soft metal that likely loses up a bit of energy transfer. But it's negligible considering the springs and the only other contact point being two knife edges.

There's no rule that a TOM would have more sustain than a FR
This, I believe, is a different argument all together.

My experience and my physicist buddy are under the impression you get more sustain the MORE decoupled from the wood you are. Metal (strings) on metal (frets) through metal (trem>block>springs>claw>screws) with adequate force applied should sustain longer than having the strings running to the bridge and into the anchors/posts and into the wood.

You may hear the acoustic vibration and resonance of the tonewood more in a TOM style bridge but as far as SUSTAIN from the string and the note, I think a floating bridge it's better.
 

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Sir Groove-A-Lot
Charvel So Cal & San Dimas
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
^ That makes a lot of sense. Maybe that's the "trickery" at play with TOM's and why they feel like they're sustaining more. You're feeling the energy transference more through the guitar and into your hands/body.

I read an article a couple of years back that debunked the bolt-on vs neck-thru sustain argument too, conducted completely scientifically, not with guitars but with strings on devices that simulated the coupling/de-coupling nature of the two neck types. Claimed that there was a negligable difference, and if anything the bolt-on sustained longer.

Go figure, we're all full of shit.
 

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Premium Member
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^ That makes a lot of sense. Maybe that's the "trickery" at play with TOM's and why they feel like they're sustaining more. You're feeling the energy transference more through the guitar and into your hands/body.
However, if a guitar feels like that, that physically tells the guitar is stealing the strings energy and will result in shorter sustain :lol:

The less the guitar vibrates, the longer sustain it should have.

In theory. But guitars are weird and you never know.

I had a Jackson Concept that vibrated a LOT but it had good sustain.

I read an article a couple of years back that debunked the bolt-on vs neck-thru sustain argument too, conducted completely scientifically, not with guitars but with strings on devices that simulated the coupling/de-coupling nature of the two neck types. Claimed that there was a negligable difference, and if anything the bolt-on sustained longer.
Well, I'm not the least bit susprised.
It's all about the parts being correctly attached to each other.
I don't think one can rule out that one or another construction will sustain longer than the other.
As mentioned, nobody knows how a guitar will turn out.

People speak too muh ABSOLUTES (in other words, CLICHES, that they have heard other say, that "sounds logical" but in reality may not be true) with no actual experience or conducted experiments.

One reoccuring cliche is "Floyds sounds thin because of chopped away wood" (it even popped up in this thread) and it's not true at all.

All my experiments have led me to be completely ambivalent to a lot of guitar factors.

All I care about now is pickups, and even I don't even care too much about that anymore either.

All I wanna do is... ROCK!

Go figure, we're all full of shit.
We fucking are. :lol:
 

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I actually agree with Rocka, minus the colored 58 point font.

If my tone is slightly different with a floyd, I'm 99.9% sure I don't really give a shit. I play metal. My tone is covered in gain, scooped, with reverb and delay and compression and everything else, then sent through various speakers that color the sound on their own. I've never had an issue with sustain, let alone one that would make me want to swap guitars. I have a lot of expensive shit, but my #1 guitar is still a beat to shit old 80's Ibanez EX shitter that's probably made out of particle board. It has an OFR in it that I bought with my paper route money in 1989 or so and it sounds great and sustains forever. And it's literally one of the lowest end Ibanez in the history of their catalog. It's probably worth about 12 bucks these days. :lol:

I get the point of the "experiment" but I really couldn't care less.
 

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Bowes Guitars
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People are holding notes long enough that it's going to directly influence your guitar purchase? "Bro I held that E5 for 45 seconds!" Really? This just seems like some petty crap for people who want to crap on people owning Floyd's.

The video is bunk right out of the gate. Here's two Les Paul's with completely different hardware. He's making this conclusion only based on two guitars and if he's saying the Floyd is the reason for the change, he's assuming the woods are literally identical and have no influence on the sound. If he's including the fact that there's a large amount of wood removed in comparison, i can buy that changing some of the sound, but to buy this guy's conclusion, you have to exclude everything to do with the woods of the guitar. Hardware, giant hole. That's it.

How many guys here have tried two "identical" guitars only to have one sound like a plank and the other sounds amazing?
 

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Sir Groove-A-Lot
Charvel So Cal & San Dimas
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Not to mention we're all using far too much distortion for the guitar's natural level of sustain to be a factor in how long the note is audible for :lol:
 

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Señor Member
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12,297 Posts
Maybe that's the "trickery" at play with TOM's and why they feel like they're sustaining more. You're feeling the energy transference more through the guitar and into your hands/body.
Yeah, the term my friend and I use is "lap feel". I'm a tonewood skeptic when it comes to what you hear coming out at the end of the chain but I think a lot of people skip over the fact you're hearing/feeling the feedback from the guitar attached to you when you're playing, which significantly effects the experience and likely HOW you play hearing/feeling one guitar vibrating on your lap versus another.

I think most tonewood descriptions are fairly accurate, it's just more to do with what you're hearing acoustically alongside what's coming out of the amplifier than it is what's actually coming out on the recording. :2c:
 

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my #1 guitar is still a beat to shit old 80's Ibanez EX shitter that's probably made out of particle board. It has an OFR in it that I bought with my paper route money in 1989 or so and it sounds great and sustains forever. And it's literally one of the lowest end Ibanez in the history of their catalog. It's probably worth about 12 bucks these days. :lol:
This is done right!!!! :yesway:
 

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Like others said, I play rock and metal, not fart-box blues rock so this dont matter one bit to me. Put that LP Axis through a boosted 5150, issue solved.

Also my OCD would like to point out that he uses two different guitars and that matters. My old 750XL had a Floyd and it had days and days of sustain, I cant imagine needing more sustain.
 
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