[petarkablam]

Long story short, I installed a Gotoh Floyd on my M-1000, using the original Floyd studs. Then I took it off, because I liked the Floyd more.

Mind you, the Floyd had a push-in style arm upgrade, which makes it just as precise and fluttery as anything else. Also, the Gotoh was installed on the original studs to try it out. Some people have said that works fine. I'm not going to name any names, but they rhyme with "eww", and they're wrong. The bass-side stud wobbles under diving and detunes the guitar. Then you can bring it back in tune by pulling the bar up several times.

Reasons for upgrading from the Floyd:
1. The saddles are a bit pointy to the palm*
2. The push-in arm is not a reliable path to ground under dives.
3. It wouldn't return to pitch with a Tremol-No installed

Reasons why it's actually a sidegrade:
1. It's freer floating, which is great for right hand vibrato, but works against left-hand vibrato.
2. The bar sits higher off the body and the tremolo is slightly less sensitive. Not really a problem, but it doesn't suit guitars where everything is low-profile and recessed.
3. The bar assembly is a screw-on type, and doesn't spin endlessly.
4. The bar holder protrudes a fair bit below the baseplate, and interfered with the body under dives, limiting range.

As a conclusion, it just didn't suit the guitar.

What beater guitar with a crap trem should I buy, to jam the Gotoh in? HSS preferred, pickguards are fine. So far, I'm thinking japanese Jacksons and korean Ibanezes. Maybe a JS100? :idea:


* - it actually turned out to be a benefit, in this guitar. Positioning your wrist for palm muting is most precise, and the guitar doesn't have a heck of a lot of low mids, so it goes from CHUG to CLACK real quick. In the future, I will just fucking deal with it.

 

[Rocka_Rollas]

Sorry to hear about that... But that just reinforces my opinion to always use the right studs for the right bridge.

You could just get yourself a German OFR and change the original studs, should be a super easy peasy installation.

Jackson Concepts should be able to buy for cheap, I got mine for $50 :flex:
The necks are pretty nice actually!

And yes, USE GOTOH STUDS. It's worth it.

I took a drillstand (think it was 9mm on the Concept, cant remember) and focus the right size for the hole.
Then I raised it, and inserted the 11mm drillbit and without moving the guitar just drilling where I left off.
Did the same for the next hole.

And it worked perfectly, this guitar kept tuning for days!
However, I did have a stupid 41mm block so I had to shim the neck.

I took this:

And turned it into this:

And thats actually with a 100% Rocka (c) Refretting that wasn't bad at all. Low action and almost no spots where bends fret out.

Oh my... This guitar was unbelievably good... Wish I still had it... I sold it to some guy (that was when I decided to only have white guitars with black hardware :lol and he refuses to sell it back to me because he thinks its so good

 

[petarkablam]

Interesting! I assume the neck humbucker was knife-routed?

 

[Rocka_Rollas]

Nope, but I canot imagine it being a pretty sight underbeath that pickguard. :flex:

 

[Rocka_Rollas]

However, the necks on the Concepts appears to be ridolously thin, I think I've seen somewhere people saying they might be some of the thinnest Jackson necks ever.

My Jackson RR24 seems more "traditional" in comparison, even tho I'm not a neck profile expert and can be wrong.

 

[petarkablam]

They made those for an year and closed the factory, dude. Yours musta been the only one that survived its warranty period. :lol:

 

[Rocka_Rollas]

Well it's a very nice guitar so I'm not surprised if it will survive another 5-10 years

 

[Toshiro]

I'll shoot a video over the weekend of my Warmoth with a Gotoh on Schaller studs. :lol:

Your problem sounds like the trem is rubbing on something.

 

[petarkablam]

It's entirely possible that the tighter fitment between Schaller studs and Schaller inserts fixes the issue, but this was not a $2K guitar in guitar kit disguise.

The Gotoh was not rubbing on anything. It had the same springs, same claw, same block size. It fluttered perfectly, and as soon as I replaced it with the Floyd, the tuning issue was gone.

 

[jdonegan]

What beater guitar with a crap trem should I buy, to jam the Gotoh in? HSS preferred, pickguards are fine. So far, I'm thinking japanese Jacksons and korean Ibanezes. Maybe a JS100? :idea:

Do some research on whichever Jackson you decide to buy if you go that route. I have a Gotoh Floyd laying around that I was playing on dropping in my Fusion HH (came with Jackson's somewhat alright Lo-TRS look alike) and it's a little too long for the route.

 

[Toshiro]

It's entirely possible that the tighter fitment between Schaller studs and Schaller inserts fixes the issue, but this was not a $2K guitar in guitar kit disguise.

The Gotoh was not rubbing on anything. It had the same springs, same claw, same block size. It fluttered perfectly, and as soon as I replaced it with the Floyd, the tuning issue was gone.

I won't bother then. :lol:

Instead of shooting a vid, which would have just been me pushing down and pulling up on the trem with the camera zeroed in on the stud, I'll leave a picture of 3 guitars all with Gotohs on Schaller studs:

I also have 2 Gotohs on their own studs in a pair of RGs. I don't notice any differences between the guitars.

 

[petarkablam]

I totally had stud movement. The best way to observe movement is tactile, placing your index finger on the stud and rest your thumb firmly on the guitar. Make sure the rest of your fingers aren't touching anything that moves.

In my case, only the bass-side stud was moving. Another interesting thing, there was a lot less movement with the curved edge of the Floyd, vs the flat edge of the Gotoh.

So far, you and have tested Schaller studs on Schaller inserts and apparently, it works well enough. Rocka and I have tested inferior studs on inferior inserts and it did NOT work. The verdict is in the air whether Schaller studs work properly on inferior inserts, but if the problem is indeed about fitment, the result will be right in the middle.

I actually ordered Schaller studs but they got lost in the mail. I guess we'll never know.

 

[Rocka_Rollas]

Rocka and I have tested inferior studs on inferior inserts and it did NOT work.

Actually, I've never had Gotoh Floyd on any other studs than Gotohs

I've always made sure I have the right pieces together.

 

[Toshiro]

I shot the video anyway this morning, before I replied to the thread. :lol:

No scientific tuner bullshit going on here, just my fat thighs and the floor in the shot:


This guitar would have gotten the Gotoh studs, but Warmoth would not install them, or even drill out the holes larger for me. They wanted me to mail them the entire bridge, which I though was nuts at the time. :lol:

 

[Rocka_Rollas]

No tuner = no proof

My Kemper even shows cents in -1 or +2 etc etc

So if one string is not on <0> after a divebomb its out of tune!

 

[Toshiro]

We're talking about the studs physically moving here Rocka, not just stability issues. :lol:

 

[Rocka_Rollas]

Well I coiuldnt see the video because whatever page you uploaded it on just exploded in advertisement popups and freezed my computer for 5 minutes :lol:

 

[Drew]

I'm not going to name any names, but they rhyme with "eww", and they're wrong.

Me? :lol: I don't think I've ever made this claim (though I have claimed you can run an OFR on Gotoh/Edge studs), but if your experience differs from mine on anything I don't mind being named, ity'd just be an opportunity to discuss the question. :yesway:

 

[petarkablam]

I meant wrong in the context of an upgrade, not necessarily in that of a build. Sorry if that caused any gritted teeth for anyone. I was referring to the thread where Rocka mauled a RR24. IIRC, you said he should have used the Korean studs, or upgraded to Schaller ones. I tried the Korean thing, and it didn't work.

Pure specula: Upgrading just the studs without the inserts might not provide enough friction to stop the stud from moving with the differently profiled and shaped knife edge.

Just sharing my upgrade experience, I hope you can take calling you out as just a friendly jab. I actually bought the Gotoh with the full intention of reaming out the insert holes, but I prefer the Floyd for this guitar.

 

[Rocka_Rollas]

What the fuck are you saying "I mauled"?

:flex:

(my RR24 is currently at PLEK for a stainless steel refretting, and I should have it back soon )