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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Figured I'd help out those who aren't on the 7 string forum by also posting this guide here. Dunno the right forum to put it in so hopefully this is alright!

Here's the link to the original thread.

I hope this thread is in the right forum...

The Ultimate Effects Modeling App Guide

I decided to write up a rather quick guide to using iPhone/iPad/iPod apps as practice tools, especially using effects modeling apps. I've tried the major ones out there and written a short summary of each, as well as feedback on some of the multiple links out there to connect your guitar to your iDevice.

Feel free to make requests about information etc. If anyone wants me to review any other apps or links let me know, but I'm tight on cash these days.

Brief Summaries:

Here's a quick write-up I did regarding a thread asking about practice tools, in which the topic of iPhone apps came up. Quoted from the original post I made in that thread.

I've tried every iPad and iPhone based software related to guitar amp/effects modeling. Here's my thoughts on using them to practice, as well as the different adapters out there:

AmpliTube: AmpliTube gets the job done, but is really only good for the lower gain and clean sounds. It's got good modulations and delay, along with cool Fender and Marshall amp sims that work pretty well! It works with the iRig and Peavey AmpKit link. Anything high gain just sounds really thin and too sharp.

AmpKit: Definitely a step up as far as the higher gain sounds go, but still not quite there. Medium gain stuff works better and you have a much wider selection of pedals and pedal order as well. I don't see a limit to how many pedals you can have at a time. The Peavey amps are actually pretty good, probably the best in the app.

JamUp: JamUp is probably the second best app you can get, and it's MUCH cheaper than the one I think is the best. I haven't tried it with iRig but it works with Peavey's AmpKit Link. Of course it works with the apps own link, the JamUp Plug. Does the high gain sounds surprisingly well, with much less noise than the other two apps. Doesn't have the pedal options like AmpKit, you can only have one amp, one gate, one delay, one reverb, etc. The actual gear it models is actually quite accurate, the Boss Delay, the MXR Comp, all good sounding and true to the originals (to varying degrees of course). The treadplate amp does great with high gain sounds, and like I said all the pedals are pretty good! The most consistent quality in all types of sound I think.

Line 6 Mobile Pod: Literally the best guitar modeling app I've touched. This one has a steep price, at $0 for the app but around $80 for their link (which is the only link that works with the app as of now) and because the link uses the charger port on the device and not the headphone jack you cannot charge the device while using the app. That all being said, the low gain sounds are realistic, dynamic and sound amazing. The high gain sounds are THE BEST of any of these apps for sure, since the modeling software in this app is rumored to be based off the same modeling from the REAL PODs, whether or not this is based off older PODs or is even true still hasn't been confirmed by Line 6. It has the most amp and cabinet models stock (AKA excluding any other ones you have to buy from in-app stores etc.), and about 15-20 stompbox effects. All the amps and cabs are based off real models and are named accordingly (Everything from Mesa and Marshall to Dumble and Fender). It doesn't have boatloads of stomboxes, but it has everything you need, just not multiple options of every kind of pedal. It also has a library of over 10,000 tones made by the Line 6 team and by professional musicians. There's also many from users that have been uploaded that you can use instantly on your iDevice without having to download computer software, search it up, then download it to your iDevice. It's all right there in the app.

As far as links themsleves go...

iRig: Gets the job done, cheap price, noisy, no batteries required. Works with AmpliTube, AmpKit and JamUp.

AmpKit Link: Because it's battery powered that means it's buffered, and your guitar's signal quality it slightly better. Does require two AA batteries to power it, but I've had mine for 6 months and haven't needed to replace them yet. Works with AmpliTube, AmpKit and JamUp.

JamUp Plug: Haven't tried it, but it's cheap and doesn't require batteries. If it's as good as the app it'll be of good quality. Works with JamUp, and I'm assuming AmpliTube and AmpKit as well.

Line 6 Mobile In: Signal quality is much better and quieter because it uses the charging port. Downside? It's $80 and means you can't charge and play at the same time. But hey, the app is free at least. I believe it ONLY works with the Line 6 Mobile Pod app. This is because the app uses updated software (both updates to their own software and Apple's own updates) that the other apps do not, and Line 6 was pretty much waiting for the technology to catch up before they released their product. Smart move, it worked.
Features and Compatibility Comparison:

Here's a chart put together to show you a feature comparison between all these apps and a compatibility chart for the different link devices on the market. Very easy to read but some information is missing, so if anyone could give feedback on the few missing spots that would be fantastic. Thanks!

NOTE: INFORMATION IS BASED ON WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU BUY THE APP, THEREFORE EFFECT, AMP AND CABINET NUMBERS DO NOT INCLUDE MODELS AVAILABLE AS IN-APP PURCHASES. WHEN YOU BUY THE APP THIS IS WHAT YOU GET.

P.S. Chart will be expanded upon/added to upon request.



Tips and Tricks:
Too much noise: A sidenote about noise issues, if you have LOADS of noise and you're wondering why, make sure you aren't charging your iPod at the same time, it can cause a ground loop issue.
Using with other apps: Some of these apps can be run in the background so that you can call up GarageBand, backing tracks, your iTunes etc. and play using the modeling from outside just the effects modeling apps. Some will do so automatically and others need to be adjusted in the app's settings, check around before giving up on 'em.

Yeah... I got nothing else. It's not much but it's a start, any questions, feedback, issues etc. please let me know!
 

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This is very much an opinion piece as much as it is a guide. I don't see a lot in there other than a crib of some manufacturer specs and "This one is the best".
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This is very much an opinion piece as much as it is a guide. I don't see a lot in there other than a crib of some manufacturer specs and "This one is the best".
I honestly don't see it that way, and I'm sorry that you do. I've stated what ones are better for what sounds for example, and that is based on fact. If you don't believe me, try that apps yourself and tell me that Amplitube does well with the high gain metal sounds. They don't, which I've stated. They are very shrill no matter what you try to do and most times you can't even get enough gain to play metal. That's just one example. There's very little opinion going on and lots of facts. Care to point out what's making you believe this is all based on opinion? I'm happy to discuss anything here, I just don't fully see what you mean.
 

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I honestly don't see it that way, and I'm sorry that you do. I've stated what ones are better for what sounds for example, and that is based on fact. If you don't believe me, try that apps yourself and tell me that Amplitube does well with the high gain metal sounds. They don't, which I've stated. They are very shrill no matter what you try to do and most times you can't even get enough gain to play metal. That's just one example. There's very little opinion going on and lots of facts. Care to point out what's making you believe this is all based on opinion? I'm happy to discuss anything here, I just don't fully see what you mean.
What is your good metal tone is horrible to someone else. What is horrible to you is great to someone else. Tone is very subjective, so saying one is better than the other based upon what you think of the tone is basically what makes it like an opinion piece.

Sure, you may have the majority opinion, it may be that most people who use them agree, but saying that one if flat out better isn't the right way to put it across. Saying "The tones available were more what I would enjoy when playing metal" would be much better, and is more likely to make people go search out the other options to see if they agree with you. For all you know, someone reading this may have found their ideal tone in Amplitube, but because you said the Line6 one was better, they never find out as they dont try it.

It's just the equivalent of saying "Burzum are a bad metal band" rather than "I don't like Burzum, but try them out to form your own opinion"
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
What is your good metal tone is horrible to someone else. What is horrible to you is great to someone else. Tone is very subjective, so saying one is better than the other based upon what you think of the tone is basically what makes it like an opinion piece.

Sure, you may have the majority opinion, it may be that most people who use them agree, but saying that one if flat out better isn't the right way to put it across. Saying "The tones available were more what I would enjoy when playing metal" would be much better, and is more likely to make people go search out the other options to see if they agree with you. For all you know, someone reading this may have found their ideal tone in Amplitube, but because you said the Line6 one was better, they never find out as they dont try it.

It's just the equivalent of saying "Burzum are a bad metal band" rather than "I don't like Burzum, but try them out to form your own opinion"
I do highly suggest you try them out yourself, this isn't a be all end all opinion, it's a GUIDE, not a RULE. And when I say better, I'm not saying "I preferred the tone personally." I mean that there is UNUSABLE amounts of noise and his, terrible ice pick tones and just pure fizz. Or, that it is much easier to get certain tones with that certain app, or that you will only get ONE high gain tone that isn't complete fizz and noise for example. Not "I didn't like it." Please try the apps and you will see that much more of this is fact than you are saying. I understand your point, but I don't think you fully see what I mean.

I'm not saying one is just flat out better than everything else, I'm just saying what certain apps are better at than others.

JamesM: Thanks very much, hope it helps!
 

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You realize that this site is run by the crew who started "the 7 string site," and if any of us really cared we'd jut go read it there, right?

You're a new member who joined within the last 48 hours, cross-posting a post from another board. I'm havig a hard time seeing why this isn't spam.
 

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Not only is this all very subjective, but the POD app? Really? It's modeling is like almost ten years old. AmpKit+ and JamUp Pro both kill it.

Also, your information about the MobileIn only working with the Mobile Pod app is incorrect; it'll work with any app that supports the digital input, such as AmpKit, JamUp, and GarageBand. I'm surprised you didn't realize that if you actually tried them all.
 

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Come on guys. Give him a break. It's hardly spam unless he's spamming his own product. He's trying to contribute. (ignore if you wish, I'm a grieving drunk).
 

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Another thing to add is that you're leaving out how these apps interact with recording applications such as Multitrack DAW and GarageBand. For example, Amplitube has a metronome and a recording ability (multitrack with in-app purchase) but doesn't support audio copy/paste, which means you're stuck working within the app for demos. MobilePOD doesn't have anything for recording, making it nothing but a practice app, unless you want to try and rig up some mess with an iPhone and iPad or something.

AmpKit and JamUp both support audio copy, so the tracks can be recorded to a click, then easily moved to GB or MTD for adding additional stuff.

Now that I think of it, the L6 app is easily the most useless of all of them, since it's got no way of interacting with anything else within the device.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Jeff: Keep in mind this was based on using them as PRACTICE TOOLS by themselves. Writing up a guide about testing them with other apps would cost me a pretty penny more that I don't have right now. :p I'm happy to add to it though. I've got GarageBand but nothing else, any other app suggestions?

Well I'm sorry you guys feel that way. If it's such an issue, delete it. I hardly see it as spam considering I don't own or endorse any of these products... and I have already been participating (and still am) on other parts of the forum. Feel free to look at my other posts. Just thought it would help to post it here but if that's such an issue feel free to get rid of it. I find it odd how if someone posts a link to a helpful thread on another forum it's fine, but if I copy and paste it here AND give the link it's an issue? However that's not the point really...
 

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I do highly suggest you try them out yourself, this isn't a be all end all opinion, it's a GUIDE, not a RULE. And when I say better, I'm not saying "I preferred the tone personally." I mean that there is UNUSABLE amounts of noise and his, terrible ice pick tones and just pure fizz. Or, that it is much easier to get certain tones with that certain app, or that you will only get ONE high gain tone that isn't complete fizz and noise for example. Not "I didn't like it." Please try the apps and you will see that much more of this is fact than you are saying. I understand your point, but I don't think you fully see what I mean.

I'm not saying one is just flat out better than everything else, I'm just saying what certain apps are better at than others.
Oddly enough you are. Ice picky and noisy, to YOU is a bad metal tone. Go listen to early black metal, that's noisy, ice picky, complete fizz, and that's the point of it.

Go listen to Entombed and Dismember, the tone is unlikely to come up as something you'd think of as good tone, and yet I think it's fantastic. I would never find that tone in the Line6 one in a month of Sundays.

You are putting across your views on tone and making it sound like they are right, rather than saying "this is the kind of tone you get out of it". Hence, opinion piece.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Honestly man, at least try the apps yourself before saying so. I'm not even saying it sounds like Entombed, honestly, I'll record sound clips to prove it to you if you wish, but I think you're making this a much bigger deal than it needs to be. If you have an issue with it, just say if you want it gone or not. At the very least we can agree the chart and the tips and tricks can help others. I think it's about time you stopped bashing it as we all see your point very clearly, if you have an issue then tell a mod to delete it, I don't mind at all if people feel it's an issue, really, it's just a thread. :)
 

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I don't have an issue with you, and I dont really have an issue with this thread itself. I'm really just trying to get the point across that you seem to be missing, that what you think of as good high gain tone doesn't translate to every single person who will read this.

Notice how Jeff has already replied disagreeing with you based upon his experience with them? That's the entire point. You are putting across that "This gives the best high gain tone" rather than just describing the tone that comes out of it. If you qualified it very simply with "To my ears" or "For what I think is good high gain tone", and then qualify what you think of as good high gain tone.

Having no point of reference to what you think of as good high gain tone when you are describing these means that it's hard to discern what tone you actually get out of them. Given they all cost money and not everyone has lots of it, dont you think it's worth actually describing the tone so people don't have to spend money on all of them to find out if they agree with you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I don't have an issue with you, and I dont really have an issue with this thread itself. I'm really just trying to get the point across that you seem to be missing, that what you think of as good high gain tone doesn't translate to every single person who will read this.

Notice how Jeff has already replied disagreeing with you based upon his experience with them? That's the entire point. You are putting across that "This gives the best high gain tone" rather than just describing the tone that comes out of it. If you qualified it very simply with "To my ears" or "For what I think is good high gain tone", and then qualify what you think of as good high gain tone.

Having no point of reference to what you think of as good high gain tone when you are describing these means that it's hard to discern what tone you actually get out of them. Given they all cost money and not everyone has lots of it, dont you think it's worth actually describing the tone so people don't have to spend money on all of them to find out if they agree with you?
Jeff hasn't disagreed, read my reply to him please. I've said this is about using them BY THEMSELVES as practice tools. There's nothing to disagree with on that point, as I haven't said how each one measures up when used with recording programs/for recording. If anything he's making a suggestion on how to make it better, not disagreeing with what I've already said.

As far as the high gain tones, I'm not talking about "It's not my thing" or "It doesn't djent, it just sounds like really early thrash metal" I'm saying two things: "I recieved so much noise and feedback that I could not play without it overwhelming my tone." and "Could not get enough gain for a high gain tone." Now I don't consider djent or even some early thrash as high gain at all, keep that in mind.
 

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You didn't read his other post then? :)

In any case, my problem isn't what you put across, it's not that you put this thread up, it's just that "good" is such a vague term, it could mean anything. To me, it meant you were describing whether something actually had a better tone, to you it's the noise floor and feedback, but given what you've put down doesn't mention that anywhere, it's quite hard to get that from it.

I'm really not having a go at you, don't take it as such, I'm merely saying if you put something up like this, you need to either qualify what you are saying, use better wording or provide a point of reference to what you are expecting to get out of the apps. Merely throwing the word "good" when it could mean anything doesn't cause anything but confusion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Ah sorry, I did miss his first post!

It may be the old software with a new package, but it handled all sounds we tried very well, very realistically and versatile. It also did the high gain sounds with the most amount of choices when it came to getting different high gain tones, as well the a lowest noise floor. It worked well with all types of pickups as well, we tried some BKP, EMG and Fender stock equipped guitars and were very pleased with the low noise floor and the sounds. I found a lot of the time active pickups sounded better with software (Amplitube, Guitar Rig and using impulses with ReCto are the only ones I've tried outside of iOS) with the higher gain sounds particularly with noise floor and getting MORE high gain tones, no matter how you set the knobs, but that was not the case with this software. Any high gain sounds you could get from passives you could get from actives.

As far as the link, I do not own it and at the time I didn't know anyone who did. I've tried all the apps but not all the links personally, I had to email Line 6 about the link and they told me it would only support their app. Then a friend of mine got it and I went over to check all my information with the link IN PERSON. When we (myself and my friend who owns the Line 6 link, where I went to test it out) tried the Line 6 connection with Ampkit and Ampkit+ it did not work. This may have changed with an update to either Ampkit or iOS but when we tried it we could not get it to work.

EDIT: You really are having a go at me mate, but I understand that's not your intention. Again, I see your point, but you do not see mine. This is taken out of context and I'm sure you can forgive me if I haven't had time to sit down and explain every little bit of it and revise the majority of the content here just yet. Take it for what it is, I'm not claiming it to be more than it is. There will be VIDEO coming with these, so forgive me if I couldn't care less about the brief summaries taken out of context as that will be overridden by the videos of course. :p
 

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Presenting this information as "facts" would require more than just your ears. You'd need specs and data to support your observations. This is basic scientific method.

Without data, you are presenting observations overlaid with your opinions, and no matter how thoroughly you tested the software and hardware, and how detailed your vocabulary, your observations are based on subjective impressions, not hard data.

Opinion, not fact.

That said, did you not try the models and effects in GarageBand? I've heard they're quite good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Wirelessly posted (like MAGIC!)

Presenting this information as "facts" would require more than just your ears. You'd need specs and data to support your observations. This is basic scientific method.

Without data, you are presenting observations overlaid with your opinions, and no matter how thoroughly you tested the software and hardware, and how detailed your vocabulary, your observations are based on subjective impressions, not hard data.

Opinion, not fact.

That said, did you not try the models and effects in GarageBand? I've heard they're quite good.
As fair as that is, I've already addressed this, it's been done, the point has been made.

I've not tried them yet actually, but I'll look into that for sure, cheers.
 

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Ah sorry, I did miss his first post!

It may be the old software with a new package, but it handled all sounds we tried very well, very realistically and versatile. It also did the high gain sounds with the most amount of choices when it came to getting different high gain tones, as well the a lowest noise floor. It worked well with all types of pickups as well, we tried some BKP, EMG and Fender stock equipped guitars and were very pleased with the low noise floor and the sounds. I found a lot of the time active pickups sounded better with software (Amplitube, Guitar Rig and using impulses with ReCto are the only ones I've tried outside of iOS) with the higher gain sounds particularly with noise floor and getting MORE high gain tones, no matter how you set the knobs, but that was not the case with this software. Any high gain sounds you could get from passives you could get from actives.

As far as the link, I do not own it and at the time I didn't know anyone who did. I've tried all the apps but not all the links personally, I had to email Line 6 about the link and they told me it would only support their app. Then a friend of mine got it and I went over to check all my information with the link IN PERSON. When we (myself and my friend who owns the Line 6 link, where I went to test it out) tried the Line 6 connection with Ampkit and Ampkit+ it did not work. This may have changed with an update to either Ampkit or iOS but when we tried it we could not get it to work.

EDIT: You really are having a go at me mate, but I understand that's not your intention. Again, I see your point, but you do not see mine. This is taken out of context and I'm sure you can forgive me if I haven't had time to sit down and explain every little bit of it and revise the majority of the content here just yet. Take it for what it is, I'm not claiming it to be more than it is. There will be VIDEO coming with these, so forgive me if I couldn't care less about the brief summaries taken out of context as that will be overridden by the videos of course. :p
The point of my posts wasn't to call it out as spam, nor to "have a go at you".

The point was to establish the subjectivity of comparing amp modeling apps, as well as clear some inaccuracies (MobileIn compatibility), and what I felt were glaring omissions in an "Ultimate App Guide", namely how they work with other apps.
 
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