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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys I'm kinda new here but the reason I'm here is that I'm in a gear twist.
I'm looking for a high-gain amp that I'm not going to need to run a stomp box in front of at all that has a great clean channel at the same time and when I say clean I mean fender lush with absolutely no gain saturation at all. I guess at this point I could deal with having a two channel amp. One clean one dirty but what I'm after is one with three channels. One for absolutely clean Fender tones, one for more vintage bluesy to modded high-gain plexi Marshall tones (kinda like "Strangle Hold" by Ted Nugent), and one for absolute liquid metal extreme high gain saturation (like "Snow Bound" by Arch Enemy) that I won't need a noise gate for. I am very open to rack mounted preamp suggestions too I've recently become a fan or rack gear so any suggestions are welcome!:] I've tried just about EVERYTHING and when I say everything I mean it. I'll give amps that I've used and didn't like and amps I used and did like but didn't get because of versatility issues.


Didn't like:
Marshall:
---JVM
DSL/TSL
Bogner:
---Ecstasy
Peavey:
---5150/I/II/III (I guess III is Fender but you know what I mean)
Crate:
---Every One
B-52:
---Every One
Kustom:
---Every One
Line 6:
---Every One (Don't even ever suggest one of those to me.)
Soldano:
---Lucky 13
---SLO 100
THD:
---Every One (Never enough gain)
Beringer:
V-Amp
---GMX
Egnater:
Tour Master
Genz Benz:
--All
Krank:
Revolution/Krankinstien
Raven:
---All
Hughes and Kettner:
---Switchblade (I'd REALLY LIKE to try the Correblade)
Mesa/Boogie:
---All (Very good cleans and vintage tones but really only lightly touches the gain I want at extremely high volumes)
Orange:
---Rockverb
Randall:
---RX Series
Rivera:
---Knuckle Head (WAAAAAAY THIN and noisy)
Rocktron:
Voodu Valve Preamp (It was very nice but I don't like having to use the noise gate on on full ALL THE TIME. It just made it sound so plastic and then it started malfunctioning)

Did Like:
Peavey:
---6505+ (there basically is no clean channel)
---XXX Almost perfect! Too bad I can't use this because of legal issues (long story)
---3120 It's alright but just seems to be lacking on the lead channel a little
ADA:
MP-1 (Again basically no clean and the high pitch squeal coming off of the display although controllable is annoying at times. The high gain was Very nice in some applications though.)
Rocktron:
150 Velocity Power Amp: This is the most professional, versatile, impressive and best sounding piece of equipment I've ever used. (Believe me I was completely skeptical of it at first too!)

I know most of these are like "NO DUH THEY SUCK DUDE!" type amps but I just put those in there just to stop some less experienced people from suggesting them. These are some amps I'd like to try:

VHT/Fryette:
Sig X (AHHHHHH!)
Pitbull Ultra Lead
ENGL:
e530 Preamp
Invader
Fireball II
Egnater:
Armegeddon (When it comes out)
Deizel:
VH4
Herbert
Huges and Kettner:
Correblade

PHEW! *puts ice on hands* Anyway, If you did make it this far thank you and please help me if you can! Please don't suggest and pedals I'm pretty sure nothing kicks that much more ass than my Boss Metal Zone and like I said I hate running distortion pedals. I will not buy an amp if I have to run one in front of it it makes paying X amount more dollars for a distortion channel in an amp almost completely pointless.

LONG LIVE METAL,

-HM
 

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Banned
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You could do what I'm planning on doing and grab a 6505+ with a PodXT in the effects loop to use as a clean channel and then grab a vader cab 2x12. But then you said you didn't want to touch Line 6 with a 8 foot pole so :lol:

What Mesa's did you try?
 

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Retarded P.A Overlord.
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Wirelessly posted (Useless fucking piece of shit: Opera/9.80 (S60; SymbOS; Opera Mobi/448; U; en-GB) Presto/2.4.18 Version/10.00)

You could run Fender and Engl pre-amps and a decent power amp and have a switcher? That or an Axe-fx :lol:
 

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El Kabong
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5,037 Posts
:welcome:

I find it interesting that you like the 6505+ but not the 5150 II, since they're the exact same amp with different names. It's also strange that you like the XXX but say that you dislike every Mesa, as I think the XXX is more or less regarded as the poor man's Mesa Recto. What do you find lacking about Mesas on the high gain side? It sounds like a Roadster would work really well for you aside from you not liking Mesa high gain sounds.

I'm not sure how you're expecting to run something with such ridiculous amounts of gain at high volumes without a gate. I just don't think that's a good idea. There's no shame in using a gate.

Have you tried the Marshall JMP-1 preamp? It's versatile as hell, and it has plenty of gain on tap.
 

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Canis lupis robertus
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5,706 Posts
:welcome:

I find it interesting that you like the 6505+ but not the 5150 II, since they're the exact same amp with different names. It's also strange that you like the XXX but say that you dislike every Mesa, as I think the XXX is more or less regarded as the poor man's Mesa Recto. What do you find lacking about Mesas on the high gain side? It sounds like a Roadster would work really well for you aside from you not liking Mesa high gain sounds.

I'm not sure how you're expecting to run something with such ridiculous amounts of gain at high volumes without a gate. I just don't think that's a good idea. There's no shame in using a gate.
This.

Mesa amps not having enough gain? What?

I'd say just get an Axe FX and be done with it. Tweak your own ideal amp sound. Your gonna have far, faaaar more versatility to dial in the sound your finicky ass wants. :lol:
 

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Uses more gain than you.
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I don't know how you can love the XXX and not the 3120 when they're the exact same amp with changed cosmetics and different power tubes. I didn't care for the XXX's styling either. Load a 3120 with 6L6s and it's the same amp.

Better get used to running a gate though, no such thing as a truely high gain amp that's dead silent.
 

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Dream Crusher
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Why no stompboxes or noise gate? That's kind of a ridiculous requirement, especially because of the levels of gain you're looking for.

Also, if a Mesa Mark IV or V can't provide enough gain, something is wrong with the amp or your needs :lol:

Since you're apparently picky, buy an Axe-FX and learn to tweak it.
 

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Premium Member
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:welcome:

I find it interesting that you like the 6505+ but not the 5150 II, since they're the exact same amp with different names. It's also strange that you like the XXX but say that you dislike every Mesa, as I think the XXX is more or less regarded as the poor man's Mesa Recto. What do you find lacking about Mesas on the high gain side? It sounds like a Roadster would work really well for you aside from you not liking Mesa high gain sounds.

I'm not sure how you're expecting to run something with such ridiculous amounts of gain at high volumes without a gate. I just don't think that's a good idea. There's no shame in using a gate.

Have you tried the Marshall JMP-1 preamp? It's versatile as hell, and it has plenty of gain on tap.
Yeah, there were a lot of strange things that jumped out at me from that list. The XXX/3210 and 6505+/5150 II were the strangest, by far.

Reading your description of what you're after, I'm kind of surprised you didn't get on with any of the Mesas you'd tried. Did you get to turn them up any?

Anyway, it won't have the kind of versatility you're after I'd imagine, but an Engl is a pretty safe bet if you want extremely saturated high gain sounds.
 

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NSLALP
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13,286 Posts
There is no way that half of the amps there without a boost pedal in front won't make enough gain for you. They make enough for Trent Reznor.

XXX has more gain than anything I've ever played, it's absurd. I never turn the knob past 1-2 o'clock. Ever.

Mesa Mark series is probably what you want, just boost it and use the 5-band EQ to add in your desired brand of crunch and thump.

Or Axe-FX :D

And if you're just trolling, GTFO :squint: :lol:
 

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ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹɐln&#38
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5150ii/6505+ really don't have that bad of a clean channel. Now, if you're expecting crystal clear cleans, then yes it's not meant for you. But if you're looking for a kinda saturated with a little breakup clean, then it's a good head for those kind of "cleans."

I'd love to own another 5150ii. I vouch for it.
 

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crying in your beer
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I somehow have the feeling that OP is not really talking about GAIN, but more of the combination of gain with the über-compressed saturation he may be used to have from some solid state amps, and cannot find these now on most tube-amps.

I would then recommend an Engl Powerball - ss-kinda saturation/compression/gain, built in noisegate.
 

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NSLALP
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I somehow have the feeling that OP is not really talking about GAIN, but more of the combination of gain with the über-compressed saturation he may be used to have from some solid state amps, and cannot find these now on most tube-amps.

I would then recommend an Engl Powerball - ss-kinda saturation/compression/gain, built in noisegate.
Fender silverface cleans?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Alright guys I'll try to address everyone here. And before I do I want to state that when I say that I didn't like the amp I mostly mean the High-gain lead channel.
@Mehtab: Even though I said I didn't like Line 6 I was mostly referring to the spider I, II, and III's not the Pod so not a bad suggestion. I might try that. :]
@BlankPlank: This is a good suggestion too I've thought of using an ENGL and Fender preamps like that. If you could suggest a fender preamp that would bee cool! :] I've also thought of using the Axe-FX.
@Tom: You analized me pretty well. The 6505+ is the same as the 5150 II and I will say my tone is kinda going towards early Van Halen, but I would never use some else's signature amp. I will agree with you saying the XXX is the poor man's Mesa Recto but I fear they do not sound the same. The difference is that the XXX has an active EQ, meaning when you set everything at 5 or 12 o'clock it's not doing anything that's affecting the tone of you guitar. When you turn these knobs down or up they boost or cut the signal buy 15dbs. this gives you a far more vast selection of tone. This is why this amp was so revolutionary and listed by Peavey as the "Ultimate tone machine". What I don't like about the Mesa rectifiers is that on the high gain channel the tonality of the gain is a little flubby I will reinforce this by saying the same thing is stated by Trace (The founder of Voodoo amps who has modded many famous guitar players amps and knows his shit) in the description of his mod for the mesa rectifiers on his website. On the subject of the noise gate I agree it is ridiculous that I'm asking for that much gain without a gate but I'm not trying to say EXTREMELY quiet just bearable. I don't subscribe to the noise gate theory. The reason that High gain budget amps make that much noise on the high gain channel is the fact that the companies use cheap filter capacitors in the amp and if you replace these with high quality ones you will not need a noise gate. I intend to do this with any amp I receive I just want it to be bearable when trying the amp for the first time so I can get the idea of how it sounds before I do the mod and blow the warranty. The JMP-1 is a very good suggestion I have not tried that but have been interested. :]
@Lyle: This is a very good suggestion too I have tried the JSX and Liked it a LOT that amp is almost perfect especially on the Ultra channel, but again I will not use another person's signature amp. The JSX is basically the XXX with a noise gate and as I've said before I can basically mod the XXX So that I wouldn't need one. So when I say it's almost perfect I'm saying the XXX is almost perfect.
@loktide: Not exactly sure what trolling is quite yet? :]
@Zepp88: Yeah The good old MP-1. :]
@The Dark Wolf: Again "Flubby" gain and slightly not enough. The Axe-FX is a good suggestion for my finicky ass! :]
@Toshiro: I know that the 3120 is the same as the XXX just with EL-34 instead of 6L6's but I thought people who knew that would understand by me saying I liked the XXX and not the 3120 would understand that I meant that I liked 6L6's instead of EL-34's without going through this long explanation.
@Matt Crooks: Good suggestion I've been trying to get my hands on one of those.
@Josh: Again "Flubby" Gain characteristics When I used the Mark V I liked the tonality of the gain on the Mark II C+ setting with the EQ in a V shape but there just wasn't enough intensity. The Axe-FX is a good suggestion for my pickyness.
@Drew: Read previous for Peavey amp explanations. If you recall in my fist post I said I turned the Mesas way up when I tested them and was only able to kinda get the tone I want at very loud volumes with those. I think the ENGL's are a good suggestion too.
@Eleven59: The legal issues have to do with the same legal issues that caused Peavey to discontinue the XXX's. The sexist nature of the amp was noticed by a feminist at a gig. (nuff said)
@Soopahmahn: Perhaps you didn't read my first post thoroughly I certainly could get enough gain with a pedal if I wanted too but I don't want to because as I stated previous It creates a longer signal chain which= loss of tone plus I have to hook it up all the time blah blah blah. I want an amp that I don't have to run one in front or in the loop. :]
@Sami: It's just as you've stated I want the crystal cleans not spanky breakup cleans :]
@Peteranima: I think you're on to something because the other day I was thinking the same thing. This makes me think that getting the ENGL e530 preamp is a very good idea because you say that and many of the people on the reviews of it said that with the gain at about 11-12 o' clock you have enough gain for the most brutal metal and it has a clean that's very hard to break up. Any other amp suggestions than the Powerball?
 

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NSLALP
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@Soopahmahn: Perhaps you didn't read my first post thoroughly I certainly could get enough gain with a pedal if I wanted too but I don't want to because as I stated previous It creates a longer signal chain which= loss of tone plus I have to hook it up all the time blah blah blah. I want an amp that I don't have to run one in front or in the loop. :]
I did read your post thoroughly.

The pedal will not cause you to lose tone. There is no such thing. And if you're worried about line loss, get a buffered pedal or a clean boost/line driver. I have an Ibanez TS9DX you'd love. And it would take less time to hook it up every time for 5 years of gigging than it took to type your two posts.

You're quite simple placing too many restrictions on what you "need".

Get an Axe-FX. Clean channel model = Fender Twin or some such, distortion channel = Uberschall or some such.
 
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