[thrashinbatman]

My Engl Savage has been doing some weird stuff the past few months. Whenever I palm mute or hit low notes, something in the head itself buzzes. It sounds a lot like the transformer to me, but I'm not positive. The amp itself sounds fine, but when I'm tracking through a loadbox I can hear it vibrating over the monitors, and is a bit concerning. Any clue what this is and how I can fix it? Here's a video to demonstrate:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3FnNUeDyaLGcV6DF6

 

[Toe-Knee]

What load box are you using?

This is fairly normal. You will be hearing the laminations vibrating or the inductors in the load.

Is the output signal fine?

Edit - actually that's not the tinny noise you usually get. Maybe get it looked at

 

[Randy]

JBA5150

 

[thrashinbatman]

What load box are you using?

This is fairly normal. You will be hearing the laminations vibrating or the inductors in the load.

Is the output signal fine?

Edit - actually that's not the tinny noise you usually get. Maybe get it looked at

I use the Reload. I hear sound from the Reload but it's the standard stuff, nothing worrying. This sound is definitely from the amp itself. I think it was doing this back when I used the Captor as well.

 

[Toe-Knee]

What load box are you using?

This is fairly normal. You will be hearing the laminations vibrating or the inductors in the load.

Is the output signal fine?

Edit - actually that's not the tinny noise you usually get. Maybe get it looked at

I use the Reload. I hear sound from the Reload but it's the standard stuff, nothing worrying. This sound is definitely from the amp itself. I think it was doing this back when I used the Captor as well.

Might be a good deal to email engl & two notes.

It could be something arcing in the amp which is never good.

Does this happen at all volumes or just when pushing the amp?

 

[thrashinbatman]

Nah, just when the amp is pushed.

 

[Leon]

I had a Carvin TS100 that would jump about 1/8" when powering it on :lol:. Not sure what was wrong, but the tech who fixed it said who ever had it before didn't have the output impedance set correctly. Those amps are funny, and have a Bridged Mode, which means it... doubles the impedance? Halves it? I don't remember :lol:. But, of course, the amp didn't say anything about it on the back, nor did it have a second column of listed impedances for you to easily see.

 

[Toe-Knee]

I had a Carvin TS100 that would jump about 1/8" when powering it on

. Not sure what was wrong, but the tech who fixed it said who ever had it before didn't have the output impedance set correctly. Those amps are funny, and have a Bridged Mode, which means it... doubles the impedance? Halves it? I don't remember

. But, of course, the amp didn't say anything about it on the back, nor did it have a second column of listed impedances for you to easily see.

You half the impedence as both sides are running in parallel in bridged mode.

Sure it does say on the back of my friends though...

Quick Google search shows it above the Jack's.

https://images.app.goo.gl/YDwND29ePA9XNN3N6

 

[Leon]

Well, I never had it long enough to even run but a few times to make sure it worked after I had it fixed, and right before I sold it :lol:. I bought it right before I saw a load of RT2/50's go on sale, apparently from Linkin Park's touring rig (there were a batch of 8 of them or something).

 

[Vince]

I had a Carvin TS100 that would jump about 1/8" when powering it on :lol:. Not sure what was wrong, but the tech who fixed it said who ever had it before didn't have the output impedance set correctly. Those amps are funny, and have a Bridged Mode, which means it... doubles the impedance? Halves it? I don't remember :lol:. But, of course, the amp didn't say anything about it on the back, nor did it have a second column of listed impedances for you to easily see.

The output impedance and the transformer are my thoughts here too. I run a similar setup to OP where i connect my amps to a load box, and if I forget to connect it, yeah I can hear a noise inside the amp that tells me turn it off fast and check connections. Thankfully this has only happened once or twice (yeah ok twice), but I could definitely tell I was about to fry a transformer as the sound of the distorted guitar was coming from inside the amp head, never a good sign.

Load boxes make noise, but we're all used to them. Push them hard, the little fan revs harder.

 

[GentleHands McCoy]

Yeah dude, you are going to want to check everything for Ground Loops and Electro Magnetic Interference/Radio Frequency Interference (as well as blown fuses etc. etc.) or some weird combination thereof before you do anything drastic. It's probably a combination of things. That doesn't really have the characteristic sound of, "oh, this or that blew up".

The list of things that causes RFI/EMI is massive. If that's in a garage with flourescent lights and a garage door opener, those both have the potential to introduce RFI.

Also, if that's an unshielded cable resting against the metal frame of your amp shelving that is going to be suboptimal for obvious reasons.

People stick with wood and other material for that kind of stuff because that kind of metal rack is a giant antenna for picking up RFI.

 

[GentleHands McCoy]

Just google, "What causes EMI/RFI" if you aren't already into that sort of thing. The list is fucking massive. I mean. You have a lot of shit to check.

I mean like.....a lot of shit.

It could be as simple as the fact you have an unshielded cable resting against a giant antenna. The cable could be picking up something on its own.

I would look into isolating what is causing the problem before paying money to have someone fix something.

 

[GentleHands McCoy]

Nah, just when the amp is pushed.

If you have any noise gates, take them out of the signal chain when trouble shooting. Once again, obvious reasons.

The reason the RFI/EMI only sounds some of the time could be that your noise gate is blocking most of it but when it even opens slightly it's so massive some gets through. That could potentially be a reason it only makes the noise when you are playing. There are a lot of fairly simple things it could be. You'll want to look into a lot of basic stuff like ground loops and what outlets you plug into.

The later Savages and some of the other later ENGLs also have built in noise gates. I think that's only the Mark II Savages though, don't know for sure.

 

[thrashinbatman]

If you have any noise gates, take them out of the signal chain when trouble shooting. Once again, obvious reasons.

The reason the RFI/EMI only sounds some of the time could be that your noise gate is blocking most of it but when it even opens slightly it's so massive some gets through. That could potentially be a reason it only makes the noise when you are playing. There are a lot of fairly simple things it could be. You'll want to look into a lot of basic stuff like ground loops and what outlets you plug into.

The later Savages and some of the other later ENGLs also have built in noise gates. I think that's only the Mark II Savages though, don't know for sure.

That clip was with no pedals in. I normally only use a gate when recording, but even on the last project I did I didn't use one (the noise wasn't that bad, it could just be edited out in the silent parts). When I turn the master down, the noise stops happening. Around 10 o clock on the master is when it starts happening.

 

[GentleHands McCoy]

That clip was with no pedals in. I normally only use a gate when recording, but even on the last project I did I didn't use one (the noise wasn't that bad, it could just be edited out in the silent parts). When I turn the master down, the noise stops happening. Around 10 o clock on the master is when it starts happening.

My money is on electrical noise due to EMI or RFI. Especially for an intermittent noise like that. Your amp to cab cable is probably unshielded too. It could be anywhere. Have you isolated what component is causing it?

Tube amps in general are regarded as less susceptible to EMI or RFI than Solid State amps. That's one of the only reasons tubes are still made. They are still used in the military on shit like fighter planes because a nuclear strike would incapacitate a lot of solid state circuitry, which is pretty much everything.

It's a non issue though, because Tube amps still have solid state parts, anything electric has some solid state circuitry. The load box, pedals, etc. etc.

There's a lot of shit you need to do to isolate it. Is the noise still there when nothing is plugged into the amp? Is the noise different if you switch channels? EMI/RFI noise on its own is unpleasant, but it's even worse distorted obviously. If the noise is worse at higher gain channels that can significantly isolate where the problem is occurring.

You'll also have to look into stuff like the cables being balanced to unbalanced, and XLR cables have multiple kinds of wiring. Pin 2 hot is the standard, but Pin 3 hot is also used. Not that differences in which pin is hot factor into this situation, just to give you an idea of how much shit can go wrong. There is a shit ton of stuff to look into when you are connecting that many pieces of equipment together, common wisdom also is into the idea of "don't run cables parrallel to eachother, because that is way noisier".

 

[GentleHands McCoy]

I don't know what kind of loadbox you are using, but balanced vs. unbalanced cable definitely matters.

You can probably just google your loadbox and "balanced or unbalanced" and find out which kind you should be using. If you are using one when you should be using the other it can cause extra noise.

https://support.two-notes.com/knowledgebase.php?article=326

I don't think your problem is that a particular component has blown or whatever, the problem is a combination of factors from interference and the intricacies of connecting that many things. It might not be a singular problem, but a 2-3 problems compounding. Interference combined with unbalanced/balanced problems and parallel cable runs and shielded cables and shit like that.

Could be wrong of course, but that's my guess.

Could be the monitors as well. :lol: Speakers obviously have internal pieces involving metal and magnets that are also susceptible to all the mentioned concepts. You basically have to try isolate what is causing it.

 

[thrashinbatman]

It's hard to test without anything plugged in because it only happens when I play low notes. I'm gonna try to see if playing through a cab causes it as well, as soon as I'm in possession of one of my cabs again. I'll also try some of the other suggestions you gave, see if maybe it helps.

 

[GentleHands McCoy]

It's hard to test without anything plugged in because it only happens when I play low notes. I'm gonna try to see if playing through a cab causes it as well, as soon as I'm in possession of one of my cabs again. I'll also try some of the other suggestions you gave, see if maybe it helps.

Where else did you ask? Generally speaking, on guitar amps, if the problem is within the head itself, a component failing or whatever, you can just post in any amp community and within like 5 minutes, a dozen people will be like, "Oh yeah, that's a classic and highly indicative symptom of a blown screen grid resistor/smoked transformer/fucked relay/microphonic tube" etc. etc. So if you aren't getting those answers, the problem is much more likely to be with interference and how you are connecting all your shit together. You would need to make a more illustrative video though, because you really can't tell from something like that.

If it's a production amp head, other people will have had the same component fail and the same symptoms and they can tell you right off the bat. Especially if it's a "classic tube amp maintenance" type thing.

Good luck, hopefully something simple.