Metal Guitarist Forums banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Black Metal Bunny
Joined
·
1,144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just started programming some drums tracks. I tap them out on the keyboard and then go in and edit the timing. But everything is super loud (velocity 127).

I'm thinking, it's probably better to have the drum volume lower but the track volume higher (which would produce the same playback volume) because this still allows for parts with increased volume.

So how loud should the "normal" drum parts be?
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
10 Posts
:lol: Well for starters, don't have all of your velocities at 127 man. Velocity is not the volume control.
 

·
NSLALP
Joined
·
13,286 Posts
Listen to the tone of the hits, not the volume. 117 sounds a lot different than 127. Go for the right tone/compression and allow really hard accents to be full-on 127s, etc.
 

·
Black Metal Bunny
Joined
·
1,144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Listen to the tone of the hits, not the volume. 117 sounds a lot different than 127. Go for the right tone/compression and allow really hard accents to be full-on 127s, etc.
Are you talking about how the sample played changes based on the velocity? I noticed that when I hit some of them hard (cymbals, for instance) it sounds different than if I hit it more softly.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,213 Posts
yeah everything at 127 will sound horrible. Im sure theres a better way to do it but if you want more percieved volume from drums i just double track them all by duplicating all the tracks. Keeps the dynamics and makes them loud in the mix.

im no expert though.
 

·
Pallin' around
Joined
·
9,532 Posts
Wirelessly posted

I don't really understand the question here :scratch:

Velocity should be used as a measurement of how hard the drummer hits, and it affects the drum tone. If you want it louder, you can side chain stuff. I add parallel compression to the kicks, snare, and toms and reverb on parallel to the cymbals and snare. Then you mix the wet tracks and dry tracks together to taste.

Hope that helps
 

·
Is Actually Recording
Joined
·
32,765 Posts
I just started programming some drums tracks. I tap them out on the keyboard and then go in and edit the timing. But everything is super loud (velocity 127).

I'm thinking, it's probably better to have the drum volume lower but the track volume higher (which would produce the same playback volume) because this still allows for parts with increased volume.

So how loud should the "normal" drum parts be?
The ideal volume for your final tracks to be at is such that when ALL the parts are playing back and your track faders are at 0db, you've got maybe 6db of headroom on your master bus.

The ideal volume to track at is whichever your preamp is either 1.) most transparent, or 2.) not transparent in the most musically pleasing levels. For the gear that everyone here but Crooks buys, that's definitely NOT 0db. I typically track peaking at around -12db, and usually drop my drum bus about the same.
 

·
Black Metal Bunny
Joined
·
1,144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wirelessly posted

I don't really understand the question here :scratch:
I'm asking which is better: high velocity and lower track volume drums, or lower velocity and higher track volume drums (assuming the playback volume is the same for each).

Velocity should be used as a measurement of how hard the drummer hits, and it affects the drum tone.
It affects volume for me. Sometimes the tone is different, too.

If you want it louder, you can side chain stuff. I add parallel compression to the kicks, snare, and toms and reverb on parallel to the cymbals and snare. Then you mix the wet tracks and dry tracks together to taste.
What does that mean?
 

·
Black Metal Bunny
Joined
·
1,144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The ideal volume for your final tracks to be at is such that when ALL the parts are playing back and your track faders are at 0db, you've got maybe 6db of headroom on your master bus.

The ideal volume to track at is whichever your preamp is either 1.) most transparent, or 2.) not transparent in the most musically pleasing levels. For the gear that everyone here but Crooks buys, that's definitely NOT 0db. I typically track peaking at around -12db, and usually drop my drum bus about the same.
Can you define "transparent" preamp?

Thanks.
 

·
NSLALP
Joined
·
13,286 Posts
I'm asking which is better: high velocity and lower track volume drums, or lower velocity and higher track volume drums (assuming the playback volume is the same for each).
There is no "better." Decide if you want it to sound like a gorilla did your drumming by the quality of the hits, or a more laid back drummer - I don't recommend all full velocity hits. They should be somewhat varied for a sense of realism.

Once you have set the QUALITY (as in, tone) of your hits through the velocities, THEN you use the volume sliders to set the LOUDNESS of each microphone in the sampling kit. And mix that into your music so that there is the balance you desire.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
3 Posts
Can you define "transparent" preamp?

Thanks.
A "transparent" preamp is one that simply makes the signal louder - loud enough for use. A "coloured" preamp is one that imparts a sound to the signal as it makes it louder.

An example of a transparent preamp is the Avalon 2022, or the Martech MSS-10. An example of a coloured preamp would be the API 512 or the Neve 1073.

Generally people think of tube preamps as being coloured, but that's not always the case. It's usually the case, but a very well designed tube preamp can be quite transparent.

Why would you use one or the other? To achieve your sonic goals. Generally, people like coloured preamps on drums and guitars. Drums going through API preamps are very popular, as are distorted guitars going through Neve preamps. Transparent preamps tend to work well with voices and acoustic instruments.

Also, any budget level preamps (i.e. those on a Mackie board, or built into your converter) are going to be designed to be transparent, but are very likely to fall short of that goal.
 

·
SLAM NOT GLAM!
Joined
·
1,495 Posts
Try to use the velocities in a way that makes it sounds more natural (unless you are going for the obvious drum machine sound). As in, if your programming some fast blastbeats, lower the velocity more. If it's a slow groove type thing, turn the velocity up more. For the most part, a real drummer isn't gonna play really fast hits as hard as slower hits.
 

·
Black Metal Bunny
Joined
·
1,144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
A "transparent" preamp is one that simply makes the signal louder - loud enough for use. A "coloured" preamp is one that imparts a sound to the signal as it makes it louder.

An example of a transparent preamp is the Avalon 2022, or the Martech MSS-10. An example of a coloured preamp would be the API 512 or the Neve 1073.

Generally people think of tube preamps as being coloured, but that's not always the case. It's usually the case, but a very well designed tube preamp can be quite transparent.

Why would you use one or the other? To achieve your sonic goals. Generally, people like coloured preamps on drums and guitars. Drums going through API preamps are very popular, as are distorted guitars going through Neve preamps. Transparent preamps tend to work well with voices and acoustic instruments.

Also, any budget level preamps (i.e. those on a Mackie board, or built into your converter) are going to be designed to be transparent, but are very likely to fall short of that goal.
Well I'm using Sampletank, my keyboard, and Reaper. Is there even a preamp anywhere in that mix?
 

·
Black Metal Bunny
Joined
·
1,144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
For the most part, a real drummer isn't gonna play really fast hits as hard as slower hits.
That sounds counter intuitive to me cuz I'd think the fast parts he's getting real excited and going faster and hitting harder, but I guess maybe if it's faster he doesn't have as much time to warm up for each strike so it might actually be softer.

Good tips in this thread. Thanks guys.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top