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Señor Member
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Skipped around because I saw this and other videos of theirs back then, I was looking for the clip where he literally RUNS ON TOP OF THE CROWD but didn't see it. Is that this one or another?

Anyway, this stuff from them if like 10+ years ago at this point for the most part where they were trying to make a name for themselves. These days they're older and do more festival type shows, where it's a lot harder to destroy a like, 70ft tall stage. I don't think smashing up dive bars is a thing they've done in a very long time.
 

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crying in your beer
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Seeing them in a small club in Vienna somewhen ~1999/2000, with Dimitry on vocals on their tour with Botch - totally INSANE live show. No demolition or stuff like that, but pure intensity, that energy of those guys on stage could have powered a country for a month.

They "lost" me musically with the following albums, but Calculating Infinity is a milestone and gamechanger of a record.
As Converge were also mentioned already - similar experience. They lost me with the later records, but Petitioning The Empty Sky is a record from another dimension, with The Saddest Day being still the most pissed of thing to ever exist. (
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There is an aggression to those songs/records (being it Converge with Petitioning or DEPs Calculating) that no metal band/album/song could ever achieve.
The only thing coming close to that feeling, to that kind of "breaking grounds" that those bands back then did achieve, would most likely be Deathspell Omega when they went from "black metal" to that "sounds of wailing souls" thing.
 

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Thread Killer
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They "lost" me musically with the following albums, but Calculating Infinity is a milestone and gamechanger of a record.

There is an aggression to those songs/records (being it Converge with Petitioning or DEPs Calculating) that no metal band/album/song could ever achieve.
Exactly, Calculating felt like a Watershed moment to me, so much genuine aggression that makes other records seem tame in comparison. I guess there was no way to do Calculating 2, so they had to take a different path and it just didn't seem like they had anything interesting to express after that.
 

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OldSchool Blacksmith
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Not sure where I land in the spectrum of this convo. :scratch:

Purposely tearing up a club is a douche move, but having it happen from the intensity of the show is #metal. I embedded the metal base of a mic stand in the stage at the Safari Club in DC once, pounding it into the stage to the beat of the song - didn't do it on purpose, it was the intensity of the show. On the flipside, doing stuff like that in a pre-meditated manner seems pretty poseriffic... Either way, the few times I've heard DEP it didn't do anything for me.

On a similar note, when Slayer utterly destroyed the Warner Theater in DC in the 80s, it was instantly the most legendary show the region ever saw - but did 10s of thousands of $$ in damage to the place. During that same time span, they played in NYC and the same thing happened - but Tom had the lightman shine all the lights on the crowd and he called out the people who were intentionally tearing the place up. Pretty sure that show is on YT somewhere.
 

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Premium Member
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I'm a huge DEP fan, own every single one of their records and all their EPs, have a Calculating Infinity t-shirt I wear quite often, and think their live shows were fucking kickass from their very beginning up until they disbanded in 2017, but I know that they're not everyone's cup of tea and a lot of "true metalheads" tend to hate them because of their hardcore elements (or their math rock influences, which are personally one of their best aspects in my opinion), so I'm not surprised at all at the hate they're getting from a lot of people in this thread. I absolutely love them. My personal favorite album from them is Miss Machine, but Calculating Infinity and One of Us Is the Killer come in close behind it. Although in the US, they are called "mathcore" a lot, I thought it was interesting how in Japan they were called "chaotic hardcore." I guess that works too.
 

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Not sure where I land in the spectrum of this convo. :scratch:

Purposely tearing up a club is a douche move, but having it happen from the intensity of the show is #metal. I embedded the metal base of a mic stand in the stage at the Safari Club in DC once, pounding it into the stage to the beat of the song - didn't do it on purpose, it was the intensity of the show. On the flipside, doing stuff like that in a pre-meditated manner seems pretty poseriffic... Either way, the few times I've heard DEP it didn't do anything for me.

On a similar note, when Slayer utterly destroyed the Warner Theater in DC in the 80s, it was instantly the most legendary show the region ever saw - but did 10s of thousands of $$ in damage to the place. During that same time span, they played in NYC and the same thing happened - but Tom had the lightman shine all the lights on the crowd and he called out the people who were intentionally tearing the place up. Pretty sure that show is on YT somewhere.
I think part of getting old or "growing up" (not that we're a bastion of maturity around here) is realizing that a lot of the rock & roll things bands do is just a bunch of guys being inconsiderate assholes. Someone has to pay for the repairs that these bands to do clubs. When bands smash lights/speakers/whatever, it comes out of someone else's pocket somewhere. As it turns out, it's not cool at all. It's like inviting your party hard childhood buddy to your first real house and having him fall into a wall because he's wasted. It was funny when you had an apartment as a kid, but once it's your own place your perspective changes quite a bit.
 

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I see no reason why you can't have an intense show without being assholes and destroying stuff.
 

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I am Groot
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Totally, let's remove all elements of danger and bad behaviour from rock and roll. I'm sure what we will be left with will be fucking great....sorry "great".
You damn well know there is a difference between putting in a great show and purposefully causing damage. Is it really rock n' roll to have venues refuse to book metal acts because one band fucked it up for everyone? At least The Who had the respect to just fuck up their own gear.
 

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I am Groot
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On a similar note, when Slayer utterly destroyed the Warner Theater in DC in the 80s, it was instantly the most legendary show the region ever saw - but did 10s of thousands of $$ in damage to the place. During that same time span, they played in NYC and the same thing happened - but Tom had the lightman shine all the lights on the crowd and he called out the people who were intentionally tearing the place up. Pretty sure that show is on YT somewhere.
And Warner never booked another metal show again, which really sucked. At least that one wasn't on Slayer, though. It was the fans who decided to start ripping the seats out of the floor asunder tossing them around. Good on Tom for realizing their is a limit.
 

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Premium Member
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Totally, let's remove all elements of danger and bad behaviour from rock and roll. I'm sure what we will be left with will be fucking great....sorry "great".
You damn well know there is a difference between putting in a great show and purposefully causing damage. Is it really rock n' roll to have venues refuse to book metal acts because one band fucked it up for everyone? At least The Who had the respect to just fuck up their own gear.
I'm not actually advocating venue destruction. I'm just shocked at the level of pearl clutching on a forum called metalguitarist.org

Its been said already but DEP were young and daft when this happened and many bands do many daft things when they are young. There's also no doubt that loads of their hard-core fans down on the front row at that show have a lifelong memory of how awesome it was whether you or I agree with how that was achieved doesnt matter to them and surely thats what rock/metal/ all music is really all about?

As I alluded to earlier I really doubt they'd be getting the same level of abuse if their music wasn't the absolute polar opposite of 80s metal.
 

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I'm not actually advocating venue destruction. I'm just shocked at the level of pearl clutching on a forum called metalguitarist.org
Maybe you should hit up the djent forums to revel in how sweet it was when your favorite band ruined a bunch of someone else's stuff for no reason. Or perhaps just go kick a hole in your own speakers? It's the metal thing to do, after all.

I just don't find fucking up someone else's livelihood to be a very cool thing to do.
 

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Premium Member
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Someone has to pay for the repairs that these bands to do clubs. When bands smash lights/speakers/whatever, it comes out of someone else's pocket somewhere.
Most likely it came out those idiots' own pockets. A national touring band pretty much has to have insurance, and I can almost guarantee you they themselves paid for it, one way or another.

I'm not actually advocating venue destruction. I'm just shocked at the level of pearl clutching on a forum called metalguitarist.org
That was schtick, pure and simple. No different than Alice Cooper guillotining a dummy of himself onstage.

Problem is, it was schtick that damaged someone else's stuff. Even when I was young and angry, that never seemed cool.
 

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Indeed liability insurance is almost mandatory especially on multi date tours, so the expense is entirely borne by DEP and will have been theirs to pay for for the rest of their careers as their premiums skyrocket.

Its not an excuse as there's still a massive inconvenience to the venue and as I say I'm not advocating it its absolutely not cool in hindsight but getting angry at young guys doing dumb stuff whilst playing music seems a bit "school board busybody" to me.
 

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Seriously tho the average age on here is like 30-50 these days. We aren't exactly a mecca for youthful energy. :lol:

I see bands damaging shit and I think in terms of how many trips to the hardware store it takes to fix it.
 

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Seriously tho the average age on here is like 30-50 these days. We aren't exactly a mecca for youthful energy.


I see bands damaging shit and I think in terms of how many trips to the hardware store it takes to fix it.
Totally, and as I say, I'm absolutely not advocating tearing up venues its obviously not the correct thing to do. I just don't think getting older means you delete your memory of what it was like to be a dumb 20 year old going crazy and loving it.
 
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