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Arrr, Matey!
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Honest question since I fancy myself a bass player but I don't use anything newer than the last 40 years. Isn't the Darkglass stuff bass djent gear?
Not really... a lot of djenters use the stuff, but so does Alex Webster, Billy Gould, Al Cisernos, and apparently Steve DiGiorgio. The Vintage series of pedals can be pretty warm sounding. I've tried and owned a bunch, but eventually moved on to other things I found to prefer with my gear.
 

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I bought their pedal based on Nolly's awesome demo of it. Can't speak for the VST but the pedal did sound awesome, though it's nothing you can't do with just about any modeler. If I was a gigging bassist I'd have one on my pedalboard but IMO the average bedroom guy doesn't need one. I ended up selling it because I just made an Axe preset that did the same thing.

Having said that - I don't think anyone would care about them if not for Nolly. And to that point - Nolly is the only reason I even care enough about this company to even bother listening to their stuff. He's a brilliant producer and if he puts his name on something there's a good chance it's probably really good - unlike the rest of the djent set who will literally plug anything if they get a free piece of gear. It doesn't make their marketing less ridiculous but I'd certainly buy a Nolly VST based on just his name alone if I was into that kind of thing.
 

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I dunno.. not sure I'll want AI in my rig. I mean, at some point these things will be wired to Sofia, who already had said the darnest things..
Don't want an AI controller to tell me what to sound like - after the fact.
Kindof reminds me of en ex gf who studied.. machine learning..
She also told me what 'it' should sound like - after the fact.
Maybe I really am getting older, and just wanna turn knobs :dunno:
 

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Hates Richie Kotzen
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Chris, to be fair the CEO for Neural is the guy who started Darkglass Electronics which has done a lot of cool shit over the last 10 years on the bass side of the world. Normally he has been pretty good at getting his products out on the market - you can find them at all the major retailers in the US, and they are immensely popular.
He's involved, but I don't think it's really his company, supposedly they are based in Helsinki, I would imagine with ex engineers from other Scandinavian DSP brands like TC Electronic and Toontrack, Scandinavia has a lot of companies in that field, I imagine that 6-7 months from now we are going to see a lot of guys who were involved with this project gracing internet comment sections with the ol', "I am no longer affiliated with Neural DSP". Tosin and Plinky and guys like that certainly have a rich history of jumping ship once the brands they were formerly endorsing go down in flames.

You can see this disaster coming coming a mile off. Best case scenario is they pull the plug before they start shipping shit and refund people their money, or everyone toes the line and gives it middling reviews saying it is subjectively good for djent and it goes down in history as a mediocre, unnotable, overpriced product.

Everything about this points to a disaster in progress though.

When a car company that has been around for a hundred years uses an exploded schematic in their marketing it's legit. It's a celebration of the longevity of their designs. When a company that hasn't released a physical product yet heavily features an exploded schematic as the core of their marketing......they can try to pass it off as a high class aesthetic choice, but it certainly looks like the company making it has no fucking clue how the parts of their product that aren't obviously vaporware work, that schematic is one of the only things they have on hand. They don't even have an abundance of information about their own product.

And to be fair, just because someone has a respectable track record doesn't mean they can't go down in flames with a disaster vaporware project. Look at people like John Romero. Some of the biggest disasters of all time in that category were from people who had respectable or even pioneering track records.

The entire roll out of this product looks suspiciously like the supposed makers themselves didn't have that much information about it. It's not exactly hard to see it's 50% vaporware/50% last gen tech based off 3-4 year old units.

It's worth noting that companies like Evertune and Axe-FX, whether you like their products or not, get featured in magazines like Popular Science or IEEE Spectrum or something. Because whether you personally like it or not, it's innovative, and the guys can explain how it works. Guitar sites will re run Neural's ad copy, but I would be surprised if any reputable trade site was willing to run a story on their outrageous claims with no proof offered. Companies like Fractal and Evertune are passion projects founded by people who believed in their designs, Neural has "company that was formed after a bunch of guys got together and said 'if other people are making money off this shit, we might as well too' " written all over it.

Neural doesn't even have a "how it works" page on their site. The stuff that is (presumably) demonstrably there is last gen unexciting stuff, another iteration of hardware that is already at the end of its lifecycle, and the claims that are a little more....out there......well those don't even have attempted explanations anywhere.

They maybe could have pulled this off as a $400-$600 unit aimed at a niche modern metal youtube market. But trying to get it to go head to head with other flagship units like the AXE-FX III at a high price point, when none of their claims stand up to scrutiny, and even the ones that do only prove it's on par with an older iteration of the units they are supposedly more cutting edge than is madness. Plugins and shit like that around the $200-$400 price point are more subjective, and no one will scrutinize them that closely, but a hardware unit in the same field and at the same price point as other cutting edge flagship units..... Yeah, maybe this will stand up to scrutiny, but I doubt it.

It's not just a case of observers being like, "this shit clearly isn't ready to be sold yet", the companies pre-order strategy is blatantly admitting the product is nowhere near ready to be sold yet.

It doesn't help that they are using cliches from low rent TV Infomercials. Even brands that make the most durable shit in their fields are smarter than to advertise their shit as "unbreakable".

The design better be fucking unbreakable, because from the looks of how the company operates, when a unit doesn't work or fails, which will happen on a number of units in anything mass produced in that quantity, no matter the level of QC, they are going to have to outright replace it. They aren't building them themselves. What happens when shit fails? Which is inevitable. They contracted a factory to build them 1000 units, not offer indefinite warranty repair support.

It's not just a case of shitting on a trendy brand because you don't like djent, you can take a quick look at their roll out for this product and see that every element has "disaster in progress" written all over it. Their own behavior contradicts their claims. If this is the most cutting edge unit out there, and anyone can inarguably see that from experiencing one, what the fuck do they need an extra year for before they start shipping? It certainly looks like a theranos type situation where the people at the top advertised one thing, announce when it is coming out, and then told the people actually making it they have a finite amount of time to get it to work, even though it is currently not working.

The only way this product could be worse is if Neural approached Samsung to design internal batteries for it.

That's not even getting into the more bullshit stuff like "a hand numbered certificate of authenticity included with their first 1000 units". No one gives a shit about that stuff for utilitarian tech products. People buying RAM or CPUs aren't like, "oh shit, better go with the brand that ships with hand numbered certificates of authenticity".
 

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Hates Richie Kotzen
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It really is something to watch, because most majestically dramatic djent business venture failures are like, "It started off OK, but people got greedy profiteering of djent, and well, we told Icarus not to fly too close to the sun, but here we are."

This is more like Icarus aiming directly for the sun from the start and flying into it on purpose while loudly narrating the process the entire way. That's the only way you could describe a company who has no idea how to make a $2000 hardware modeler, no experience making $2000 hardware modelers, and no working $2000 hardware modelers to sell taking pre-orders on a $2000 hardware modeler.

I will definitely enjoy keeping track of how this unfolds.
 

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Guiterrorizer
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I move to make the home page a picture of Garrett holding a Jackson in front of a mountain captioned "We don't fuck around".
 

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Premium Member
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It really is something to watch, because most majestically dramatic djent business venture failures are like, "It started off OK, but people got greedy profiteering of djent, and well, we told Icarus not to fly too close to the sun, but here we are."

This is more like Icarus aiming directly for the sun from the start and flying into it on purpose while loudly narrating the process the entire way. That's the only way you could describe a company who has no idea how to make a $2000 hardware modeler, no experience making $2000 hardware modelers, and no working $2000 hardware modelers to sell taking pre-orders on a $2000 hardware modeler.

I will definitely enjoy keeping track of how this unfolds.
Will "forum post" ever be a noble price category?

You will get it. Keep going :lol:
 

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Thread Killer
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These pricey floorboards would be wise to take a page from the G-System book or, hell, maybe TCE should dust it off. Where they had it right in designing a floorboard that's designed to be gigged with was

1.) Having the option of having the "brain" mounted underneath the foot pedal or mounted in the rack (and it's only 1U!)

2.) If you mount the "brain" in the rack, it connects to the pedal with just one wire. Line 6 also had this right with the rack mount PODs and a single Cat5e to power and communicated with the FBV.

3.) The thing was built like a tank. No, literally. Remember in the promotional video, they literally ran it over with a tank?
Quoting this because it's worth repeating. The first piece of gear I've ever owned where it was always able to do what I wanted, not a single 'If only it could do irritating task X', design decisions made to make it integrate well with almost all other companies products. If I was ever running heads again I would get another G-System in a second, even now on occasion when I want to do something in my rig, I realise the G-System could have done it.
 

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Hates Richie Kotzen
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Guess I know what to post about if I want to get Garrett's attention. :lol:
I quickly googled "Axe fx forum neural" to see if I was the only one calling bullshit on this and got several different links to pages that read "thread deleted", so I'm guessing the answer to that one is no. :lol:

I also got bombarded with this youtube ad at least three times, which reveals that although they haven't yet finalized the design of the actual unit, they know where they are putting their pretentious quoted stanzas from Ozymandias already.



Considering they already used a pretentious Alan Kay quote on their official roll out page, this doesn't look good in terms of the "cliche'd inspirational quotes to actual content" ratio indicative of vaporware.

Although to their credit, they were able to restrain themselves from using the most pretentious Alan Kay quote in their roll out, and went for one of the slightly less pretentious ones.

Although they might just be saving the more pretentious one to print on another circuit board, we don't know yet.

 

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Hates Richie Kotzen
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Presumably the Ozymandias quote printed on the circuit board was their second choice.

Originally I'm sure they wanted to go with,

"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds"

But they weren't sure whether crediting it to Robert Oppenheimer or the Bhagavad-Gita was more appropriate.

And then I'm sure someone pointed out, "Hey, do we really want a quote related to the atomic bomb printed on these circuit boards when we are having them manufactured in Asia?".
 

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I don't think my Fractal stuff or my Kemper has anything written on the circuitboard. :(

Do I still get the benefits of inspirational quotes if I just scribble something on there myself? I was thinking something along these lines here:

Pauly Shore said:
Weeeeze the Ju-uuuuuice
 

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Hates Richie Kotzen
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I don't think my Fractal stuff or my Kemper has anything written on the circuitboard. :(

Do I still get the benefits of inspirational quotes if I just scribble something on there myself? I was thinking something along these lines here:
"hey, the board for all the machine learning stuff doesn't even work, it does fuck all, do you think we should even pay to have it manufactured?"

"maybe we can just have the factory print Martin Luther King Jr.s 'I have a dream speech" where all the circuitry would go? That's a totally appropriate parallel to the importance of our unit."

"yeah, totally appropriate"

Someone who actually pre-ordered the unit should ask them if they should be bragging about how they managed to keep the weight ultra light, when half of that weight is made up of developer vanity touches that don't actually contribute to the functionality of the unit.

"We tried to keep the weight as light as possible, but we aren't replacing the miniature bronze statuette of the dev team posed like the marines at Iwo Jima raising the flag only the flag is replaced by a Neural unit on a pole included in the interior of every unit"
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Presumably the Ozymandias quote printed on the circuit board was their second choice.

Originally I'm sure they wanted to go with,

"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds"

But they weren't sure whether crediting it to Robert Oppenheimer or the Bhagavad-Gita was more appropriate.

And then I'm sure someone pointed out, "Hey, do we really want a quote related to the atomic bomb printed on these circuit boards when we are having them manufactured in Asia?".
Oppenheimer, IMO. "Now I am become Death, the destoyer of worlds" is actually a not-great, but very literal translation. It also beats the shit out of a "better" translation in terms of poetics, of course, but attributing it to Oppenheimer saves you the trouble of worrying about which translation and whether or not it was technically accurate.

Besides, Bhagavad-Gita sounds like a djent band, and we don't want to encourage them any more than we have to.
 

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Not baked anymore.
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I much prefer the Pete Cornish method, where he makes dates and makes notes on the things he's done on the inside of the case.
http://www.petecornish.co.uk/New-PSU.jpg
Funny- once a year I look around for used PC pedals and daydream for a bit. I just did that less than 2 minutes ago and then opened this thread to see that.
 

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Thread Killer
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Funny- once a year I look around for used PC pedals and daydream for a bit. I just did that less than 2 minutes ago and then opened this thread to see that.
Ha, same thing, I've been looking for some switching and splitting options and ended up on his site. If I won the lottery, I would buy any of it in a second, but I can't justify that expenditure even for tours where I'm making decent money.
 

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I didn't think any of it sounded bad. It just didn't sound any better than Axe-FX or Kemper. In fact, just judging from that video, I'd say Axe-FX and Kemper sound better (but it IS just one 4 minute long video).
 
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