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Holy shit indeed; pure awesomeness, although CGI Luke looked a little wonky. And the post credits scene! Was a little worried when no Boba Fett show was announced last week with the rest of the stuff, but in hindsight it's obvious that they wanted to save the reveal. However, the reveal can also be interpreted as if season 3 of Mando is going to be about Boba Fett; we'll just have to wait and see.

Some relevant sad news is that Jeremy Bulloch (OG Boba Fett) just died. :(
 

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crying in your beer
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Well, I am sitting here, unable to move, because I am emotionally shaken by this most epic piece of Star Wars since the original trilogy.

i would say "I'm not crying, you're crying", but frankly, that would be not quite true - as I did, indeed, also cry.
 

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Holy shit, what an episode.

Luke going end-of-Rogue-One Vader and capping it off with the style points kill on that last Dark Trooper, using his gloved mechanical hand, was a pretty nice touch.
 

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That was something. Gonna try and watch it again today lol.
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
That was great, but am I the *only* one with some reservations? :lol:

I think one of the things that really worked about The Mandalorian in Season 1 was that it was fairly self-contained. You had a brand-new cast of characters, rooted in a relatively lightly-explored corner of Star Wars lore, and at the very end there's a reference to an artifact that surfaces elsewhere in the Star Wars universe, but it pretty much is a story that exists outside any of the other stories in Star Wars. And that's refreshing, cvonsidering how slavish the final trilogy was.

Season 2, though... criticism about it being back-door trailers for a number of since-announced series aside, one of the problems for me is they seem to be going full Marvel cinematic universe here, with everything that entails. Major character from The Clone Wars shows up, Boba Fett becomes a major character, and none other than Luke Skywalker shows up, in full CGI glory, to save the day at the very end.

This also starts to paint some continuity problems. Grogu was pretty clearly a survivor of the slaughter of the younglings, meaning he's been out there in hiding during the entirity of the original trilogy. He also ages at a glacial pace, so he's either still alive, and at most a teenager, during the final trilogy, when Luke is in exile and shut off from the force after Ben Solo's little stunt at his training camp, unless he was killed there (which, surviving the slaughter of the younglings and NOT surviving Ben Solo's attack would be a special sort of irony), or he dies at some point in the upcoming season(s), in which case my girlfriend will be inconsolable. If Luke knew about and had trained Grogu, then Leia must have known about him too, and while he's still pretty young, a Jedi with by that point more than a hundred years of training would be an odd resource not to pull into the war.

I kinda wish they hadn't pulled Luke in - other Jedis were still in hiding, with Samuel L. Jackson's Mace Windu being a prime contender if he'd - like Luke before him - survived that fall, and doesn't have any inconvenient storylines to get entangled in later on so the story arc would have been pretty free to continue on its own, with the assumption simply being that the reason Grogu doesn't show up in any of the later movies was that he had somehow been hidden from other users of the Force.

Idunno, though. The storyline just got messy in a big way last night, and there's a LOT of ways for the writers to fuck this up or paint themselves into a corner that didn't exist a few weeks ago.
 

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That was great, but am I the *only* one with some reservations? :lol:

I think one of the things that really worked about The Mandalorian in Season 1 was that it was fairly self-contained. You had a brand-new cast of characters, rooted in a relatively lightly-explored corner of Star Wars lore, and at the very end there's a reference to an artifact that surfaces elsewhere in the Star Wars universe, but it pretty much is a story that exists outside any of the other stories in Star Wars. And that's refreshing, cvonsidering how slavish the final trilogy was.

Season 2, though... criticism about it being back-door trailers for a number of since-announced series aside, one of the problems for me is they seem to be going full Marvel cinematic universe here, with everything that entails. Major character from The Clone Wars shows up, Boba Fett becomes a major character, and none other than Luke Skywalker shows up, in full CGI glory, to save the day at the very end.

This also starts to paint some continuity problems. Grogu was pretty clearly a survivor of the slaughter of the younglings, meaning he's been out there in hiding during the entirity of the original trilogy. He also ages at a glacial pace, so he's either still alive, and at most a teenager, during the final trilogy, when Luke is in exile and shut off from the force after Ben Solo's little stunt at his training camp, unless he was killed there (which, surviving the slaughter of the younglings and NOT surviving Ben Solo's attack would be a special sort of irony), or he dies at some point in the upcoming season(s), in which case my girlfriend will be inconsolable. If Luke knew about and had trained Grogu, then Leia must have known about him too, and while he's still pretty young, a Jedi with by that point more than a hundred years of training would be an odd resource not to pull into the war.

I kinda wish they hadn't pulled Luke in - other Jedis were still in hiding, with Samuel L. Jackson's Mace Windu being a prime contender if he'd - like Luke before him - survived that fall, and doesn't have any inconvenient storylines to get entangled in later on so the story arc would have been pretty free to continue on its own, with the assumption simply being that the reason Grogu doesn't show up in any of the later movies was that he had somehow been hidden from other users of the Force.

Idunno, though. The storyline just got messy in a big way last night, and there's a LOT of ways for the writers to fuck this up or paint themselves into a corner that didn't exist a few weeks ago.
While I gave The Rescue some praise, namely from the direction of Peyton Reed, and I guess most of the writing from Jon Favreau, I'm on this boat too.

Disney are weaponising the Star Wars canon. Agreed that part of the charm of the first season was seeing a new story with new characters outside the films in the same galaxy far far away. Season 2 was slowly showing less interest in that and going back to world building using familiar faces. Bo Katan and Ashoka Tano were more interesting in the Clone Wars series than the continuity references they play here. And Disney know this. Those who don't care much about the EU stuff can just easily watch that series right after Mandalorian since the same streaming service can offer just that. This is Disney understanding the fandom and exploiting it, since there's a lot of fan money around. This isn't exactly a bad thing, but I've said in an earlier post when hamfisted fanservice still leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

I enjoyed The Rescue up until the Deus Ex Machina moment. I'm sure the last of the Jedi rocking up was an ode to Yoda's last words, but it felt like the easy way out. Also completely undermined with Ashoka being in the series already. They could've easily introduced somebody new, a whole new jedi. They spent the first season introducing new characters with arcs. Why bring back the same familiar faces again? Now I'm all up for continuity, hell I'm not completely burned out with Disney's Marvel factory. But with Star Wars, different story.
 

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I don't think it would have worked with anyone but
Luke,
honestly.

Like, yes, any Jedi could have shown up to fight some droids and take Grogu but IMO all the other options are kinda shit. I keep seeing buzz about Mace Windu but personally, I think that's dumb. :lol: For one thing, I think the Star Wars universe is all tapped out on retconning deaths after the Palpatine mess and bringing back Boba Fett in the very same show. For another, that brings up all the same timeline problems that Drew mentioned with Grogu down the line. Ahsoka has already made clear it's not gonna be her. That leaves you with a handful of characters from other cartoons/video games/whatever like Ezra Bridger, Kyle Katarn (who isn't even part of the canon anymore) or Cal Kestis. Cal would have sorta worked given the ending of that game, I guess, but then 90% of the audience would be going "who the fuck is this guy!?, which is also the problem with introducing a new character. I dunno, it just seems way more ham-handed to me than Mando's story briefly intersecting with Luke Skywalker.

Also, all these alternatives assume that they're intending to spend a lot of time on Grogu's training in future seasons. There's no way Disney writes as big a cash-cow as baby Yoda out of the picture for long, but that goodbye was clearly pretty final and communicating that we're done following Grogu's story for a while. IMO, the fact that it's Luke swooping in to grab him kind of underlines that because yeah, of course we're not gonna spend extensive time with Luke Skywalker on this spinoff show about a fairly small-stakes adventure in the Star Wars universe. If you had some minor Jedi do it, come season 3 people would be expecting to get a bunch of Jedi training montages with Grogu, and it just doesn't seem like that's the direction they're going.

Also, given when this show falls in the chronology, repeatedly introducing new Jedi really undercuts the idea that Luke has to rebuild the Jedi basically from scratch. It's fine to have Ahsoka out there doing her thing - especially since she's not really part of the order and all that - but I think introducing yet more Jedi that secretly survived the purge or have been hiding in the outer rim or whatever is starting to push it. If there are fully trained Jedi who are capable of taking on students hiding out in every nook and cranny of the galaxy then it kind of detracts from Luke's story in the main SW movies in a pretty big way, IMO.

Anyway, to me the bottom line is this: the sign of a good, earned twist is that you look back and realize all the signs were there all along - you just didn't put them together. The entire season has been Mando trying to find a Jedi to hand Grogu off to. Mid season they find a big ol' Jedi space phone that Grogu uses to contact...we don't know who. He gets sent there by Ahsoka, who can't/won't train him. We know the show takes place shortly after the Battle of Endor, which means Jedi, and particularly ones powerful/trained enough to hear, understand, and follow that kind of a communication through the Force are exceedingly rare. We only know of one who is actively looking to rebuild the Jedi. Luke is the only one who makes sense.
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Discussion Starter · #110 ·
I don't think it would have worked with anyone but
Luke,
honestly.

Like, yes, any Jedi could have shown up to fight some droids and take Grogu but IMO all the other options are kinda shit. I keep seeing buzz about Mace Windu but personally, I think that's dumb. :lol: For one thing, I think the Star Wars universe is all tapped out on retconning deaths after the Palpatine mess and bringing back Boba Fett in the very same show. For another, that brings up all the same timeline problems that Drew mentioned with Grogu down the line. Ahsoka has already made clear it's not gonna be her. That leaves you with a handful of characters from other cartoons/video games/whatever like Ezra Bridger, Kyle Katarn (who isn't even part of the canon anymore) or Cal Kestis. Cal would have sorta worked given the ending of that game, I guess, but then 90% of the audience would be going "who the fuck is this guy!?, which is also the problem with introducing a new character. I dunno, it just seems way more ham-handed to me than Mando's story briefly intersecting with Luke Skywalker.

Also, all these alternatives assume that they're intending to spend a lot of time on Grogu's training in future seasons. There's no way Disney writes as big a cash-cow as baby Yoda out of the picture for long, but that goodbye was clearly pretty final and communicating that we're done following Grogu's story for a while. IMO, the fact that it's Luke swooping in to grab him kind of underlines that because yeah, of course we're not gonna spend extensive time with Luke Skywalker on this spinoff show about a fairly small-stakes adventure in the Star Wars universe. If you had some minor Jedi do it, come season 3 people would be expecting to get a bunch of Jedi training montages with Grogu, and it just doesn't seem like that's the direction they're going.

Also, given when this show falls in the chronology, repeatedly introducing new Jedi really undercuts the idea that Luke has to rebuild the Jedi basically from scratch. It's fine to have Ahsoka out there doing her thing - especially since she's not really part of the order and all that - but I think introducing yet more Jedi that secretly survived the purge or have been hiding in the outer rim or whatever is starting to push it. If there are fully trained Jedi who are capable of taking on students hiding out in every nook and cranny of the galaxy then it kind of detracts from Luke's story in the main SW movies in a pretty big way, IMO.

Anyway, to me the bottom line is this: the sign of a good, earned twist is that you look back and realize all the signs were there all along - you just didn't put them together. The entire season has been Mando trying to find a Jedi to hand Grogu off to. Mid season they find a big ol' Jedi space phone that Grogu uses to contact...we don't know who. He gets sent there by Ahsoka, who can't/won't train him. We know the show takes place shortly after the Battle of Endor, which means Jedi, and particularly ones powerful/trained enough to hear, understand, and follow that kind of a communication through the Force are exceedingly rare. We only know of one who is actively looking to rebuild the Jedi. Luke is the only one who makes sense.
I'll admit, all of these are pretty good points. I'm still not wild about the choice though.
First, I can think of a few other good ways out of that tight spot at the end of the finale.
1) Grogu is inexperienced and unstructured, but still very strong in the force. Luke did away with a few of the dark troopers with force alone - Grogu could have probably done something dramatic there that, at least, would be no LESS deux ex machina than having Luke Skywalker show up.
20 Din got his ass handed to him and only barely defeated ONE dark trooper... but that was before he had the Darksaber. Their armor clearly isn't imperveous to lightsabers based on what Luke did to them, and Din hasn't fought much with a sword yet, but adapted pretty quickly to fighting with a spear - there's already some major tension/resentment with Bo Katan now that Din has the Darksaber, and Din going out there and absolutely massacring the dark troopers with the Darksaber might go a long way to reconciling her to the idea that he's the guy who's supposed to be trying to rebuild Mandalore. As an added bonus, there's nothing particularly deus ex machina about this as a solution.

And, of course...

3) we're looking at this as a framework where these are all fixed events, so how else do you save everyone from a platoon of dark troopers starting to beat down the door. This is a problem for the characters, because the writers PUT them in this problem, so naturally simply considering putting them in a DIFFERENT problem should be on the table when discussing how to get them out. I actually thought shooting the darktroopers out into space, and then having them all fly back a couple minutes later, was kind of a nice touch - these are rocket powered droids, so when you think about it what felt like, in the moment, a pretty final solution actually wouldn't have held them back for long... But, what if instead Din had successfully managed to shut them back down and put them back to sleep? Or what if four had gotten out rather than one, the platoon had been 20, and while it was still a hard fight he did manage to take down four of them while delaying the rest? There are a lot of little things that could have been done along the way to take what seemed like an insurmountable problem, in the final scene, and given them a few ways out that wouldn't have required Luke Skywalker showing up to bail everyone out. After that, who knows. I'd say maybe Ashoka could have a change of heart and agree to train Grogu after all, and this could be something of a redemption arc for her, though that's complicated by her having her own series coming up now (unless Baby Yoda hops series...?). Her decision not to is mutable, too.

Though, I suppose Luke being an active character in this world adds another wrinkle - Din is tasked with bringing Baby Yoda to a Jedi, and spends two seasons searching for one, to fulfill his duty. And, like, not a single person he talks to stops and thinks, "Oh yeah, that hero of the Republic, the guy who blew up the Death Star, and then just in case he hadn't made his point, did it again, and helped found the Republic, with his sster Leia... That dude? Isn't he a Jedi? Why don't you go talk to him?" :lol:

EDIT:
Also, if Baby Yoda isn't back in the Mandalorian in tie for the Season 3 premiere, there's going to be a fucking riot. Disney, I HAVE to believe, isn't stupid enough to try to continue the show without him. I'm not sure how they're going to do it, but the majority of people i know watching this aren't here for the history of Mandalore or the Darksaber or Boba Fett, they're here fr Baby Yoda.
 

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I've always been really against signing up for Disney+, but I love both Star Wars and Marvel, so I've been tempted to sign up even if only for a month or two so I could watch this show, but the main thing that has stopped me is how, even though Disney is one of the biggest companies in the world, they do not have a PS4 or Xbox One app. I looked online and apparently they DO have an app in the US stores, but not in the Japanese one. Then you might think "Then just download it from the US PSN Store," but it seems that some Japanese users have tried to down the US app and sign in with a Japanese account and it hasn't worked, and also that they've tried to use the PS4's or Xbox One's browser to go to the Disney+ site, but that it always returns an error. I also checked my smart TV and it has over 30 streaming services (such as Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV+, Rakuten TV, YouTube, Fuji On Demand, and all the most popular streaming services in Japan), but no Disney+. Considering Disney+ was released in Japan over a year ago, it kind of blows my mind that there's no console app, nor any widespread smart TV app (I say "widespread," because apparently SOME Japanese smart TVs do have it, but the vast majority do not). It's especially confusing considering how huge of a company Disney+ is. Do they expect everyone to just watch on their PC's web browsers?
 

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crying in your beer
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I've always been really against signing up for Disney+, but I love both Star Wars and Marvel, so I've been tempted to sign up even if only for a month or two so I could watch this show, but the main thing that has stopped me is how, even though Disney is one of the biggest companies in the world, they do not have a PS4 or Xbox One app. I looked online and apparently they DO have an app in the US stores, but not in the Japanese one. Then you might think "Then just download it from the US PSN Store," but it seems that some Japanese users have tried to down the US app and sign in with a Japanese account and it hasn't worked, and also that they've tried to use the PS4's or Xbox One's browser to go to the Disney+ site, but that it always returns an error. I also checked my smart TV and it has over 30 streaming services (such as Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV+, Rakuten TV, YouTube, Fuji On Demand, and all the most popular streaming services in Japan), but no Disney+. Considering Disney+ was released in Japan over a year ago, it kind of blows my mind that there's no console app, nor any widespread smart TV app (I say "widespread," because apparently SOME Japanese smart TVs do have it, but the vast majority do not). It's especially confusing considering how huge of a company Disney+ is. Do they expect everyone to just watch on their PC's web browsers?
Same, my LG TV is 2 years old but appearantly that's too old for the Disney+ App.
 

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Though, I suppose Luke being an active character in this world adds another wrinkle - Din is tasked with bringing Baby Yoda to a Jedi, and spends two seasons searching for one, to fulfill his duty. And, like, not a single person he talks to stops and thinks, "Oh yeah, that hero of the Republic, the guy who blew up the Death Star, and then just in case he hadn't made his point, did it again, and helped found the Republic, with his sster Leia... That dude? Isn't he a Jedi? Why don't you go talk to him?" :lol:
To be honest, this is pretty consistent with how Star Wars has always worked. A New Hope is only like 20 years after Revenge of the Sith, yet Han talks about the Jedi as if they're a myth, Tarkin calls them an ancient religion, and that other guy on the Death Star mocks Vader as some delusional religious loony. Mandalorian takes place what, like five years after Jedi? Yet apparently Din has never heard of the Jedi, and the armorer refers to them as some ancient race of sorcerers.

It actually seems to be kind a running theme: in this universe they have faster than light travel and lasers and advanced robotic prosthetics, but communication technology seems weirdly primitive? How many of these movies/shows involve plots where people have to physically ferry sensitive information to someone instead of just...putting it in a fucking email or something? It's probably explained in some tie-in novel or comic book that the Empire monitors the galactic internet and so to securely transmit information you have to hand-deliver it, I dunno. Even Game of Thrones eventually just treated the ravens as email and therefore its characters seem to have had an easier time contacting one another and more up-to-date on contemporary politics than the ones in Star Wars :lol:

Anyway, my point is most (all?) of the Mandalorian episodes takes place on pretty backwater worlds, so it's not entirely surprising to me that everyone might be a bit behind on galactic geopolitics. Ahsoka is a Jedi sure, but she's also just been off doing her own thing and gave up contact with the Jedi Order back when it still existed. Shit, no one else on the bridge of that ship seemed to recognize
Skywalker
either. You'd think that a former rebel/current New Republic official like Cara Dune or an Imperial officer like Moff Gideon would have known.
 

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To be honest, this is pretty consistent with how Star Wars has always worked. A New Hope is only like 20 years after Revenge of the Sith, yet Han talks about the Jedi as if they're a myth, Tarkin calls them an ancient religion, and that other guy on the Death Star mocks Vader as some delusional religious loony. Mandalorian takes place what, like five years after Jedi? Yet apparently Din has never heard of the Jedi, and the armorer refers to them as some ancient race of sorcerers.

It actually seems to be kind a running theme: in this universe they have faster than light travel and lasers and advanced robotic prosthetics, but communication technology seems weirdly primitive? How many of these movies/shows involve plots where people have to physically ferry sensitive information to someone instead of just...putting it in a fucking email or something? It's probably explained in some tie-in novel or comic book that the Empire monitors the galactic internet and so to securely transmit information you have to hand-deliver it, I dunno. Even Game of Thrones eventually just treated the ravens as email and therefore its characters seem to have had an easier time contacting one another and more up-to-date on contemporary politics than the ones in Star Wars :lol:

Anyway, my point is most (all?) of the Mandalorian episodes takes place on pretty backwater worlds, so it's not entirely surprising to me that everyone might be a bit behind on galactic geopolitics. Ahsoka is a Jedi sure, but she's also just been off doing her own thing and gave up contact with the Jedi Order back when it still existed. Shit, no one else on the bridge of that ship seemed to recognize
Skywalker
either. You'd think that a former rebel/current New Republic official like Cara Dune or an Imperial officer like Moff Gideon would have known.
Agree with you a 100%, there's no way it would've worked with anyone but Luke. It's maybe a little weird that Cara doesn't seem to know who Luke is, but it's pretty clear to me that Gideon knows. He has an arrogant grin on his face right up until the moment the X-Wing arrives, and when Bo-Katan says "Jedi?" he's absolutely shitting himself. Giancarlo Esposito's acting in that scene is phenomenal. Come to think of it, Luke is probably to the Imperial Remnant what Vader was to the Rebels, so there's no way anyone of the Imperials wouldn't know exactly who he is.
 

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To be honest, this is pretty consistent with how Star Wars has always worked. A New Hope is only like 20 years after Revenge of the Sith, yet Han talks about the Jedi as if they're a myth, Tarkin calls them an ancient religion, and that other guy on the Death Star mocks Vader as some delusional religious loony. Mandalorian takes place what, like five years after Jedi? Yet apparently Din has never heard of the Jedi, and the armorer refers to them as some ancient race of sorcerers.

It actually seems to be kind a running theme: in this universe they have faster than light travel and lasers and advanced robotic prosthetics, but communication technology seems weirdly primitive? How many of these movies/shows involve plots where people have to physically ferry sensitive information to someone instead of just...putting it in a fucking email or something? It's probably explained in some tie-in novel or comic book that the Empire monitors the galactic internet and so to securely transmit information you have to hand-deliver it, I dunno. Even Game of Thrones eventually just treated the ravens as email and therefore its characters seem to have had an easier time contacting one another and more up-to-date on contemporary politics than the ones in Star Wars :lol:

Anyway, my point is most (all?) of the Mandalorian episodes takes place on pretty backwater worlds, so it's not entirely surprising to me that everyone might be a bit behind on galactic geopolitics. Ahsoka is a Jedi sure, but she's also just been off doing her own thing and gave up contact with the Jedi Order back when it still existed. Shit, no one else on the bridge of that ship seemed to recognize
Skywalker
either. You'd think that a former rebel/current New Republic official like Cara Dune or an Imperial officer like Moff Gideon would have known.
Correction: despite the title of that episode, Ahsoka Tano is not a Jedi. :D
 

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I'll admit, all of these are pretty good points. I'm still not wild about the choice though.
First, I can think of a few other good ways out of that tight spot at the end of the finale.
1) Grogu is inexperienced and unstructured, but still very strong in the force. Luke did away with a few of the dark troopers with force alone - Grogu could have probably done something dramatic there that, at least, would be no LESS deux ex machina than having Luke Skywalker show up.
20 Din got his ass handed to him and only barely defeated ONE dark trooper... but that was before he had the Darksaber. Their armor clearly isn't imperveous to lightsabers based on what Luke did to them, and Din hasn't fought much with a sword yet, but adapted pretty quickly to fighting with a spear - there's already some major tension/resentment with Bo Katan now that Din has the Darksaber, and Din going out there and absolutely massacring the dark troopers with the Darksaber might go a long way to reconciling her to the idea that he's the guy who's supposed to be trying to rebuild Mandalore. As an added bonus, there's nothing particularly deus ex machina about this as a solution.

And, of course...

3) we're looking at this as a framework where these are all fixed events, so how else do you save everyone from a platoon of dark troopers starting to beat down the door. This is a problem for the characters, because the writers PUT them in this problem, so naturally simply considering putting them in a DIFFERENT problem should be on the table when discussing how to get them out. I actually thought shooting the darktroopers out into space, and then having them all fly back a couple minutes later, was kind of a nice touch - these are rocket powered droids, so when you think about it what felt like, in the moment, a pretty final solution actually wouldn't have held them back for long... But, what if instead Din had successfully managed to shut them back down and put them back to sleep? Or what if four had gotten out rather than one, the platoon had been 20, and while it was still a hard fight he did manage to take down four of them while delaying the rest? There are a lot of little things that could have been done along the way to take what seemed like an insurmountable problem, in the final scene, and given them a few ways out that wouldn't have required Luke Skywalker showing up to bail everyone out. After that, who knows. I'd say maybe Ashoka could have a change of heart and agree to train Grogu after all, and this could be something of a redemption arc for her, though that's complicated by her having her own series coming up now (unless Baby Yoda hops series...?). Her decision not to is mutable, too.

Though, I suppose Luke being an active character in this world adds another wrinkle - Din is tasked with bringing Baby Yoda to a Jedi, and spends two seasons searching for one, to fulfill his duty. And, like, not a single person he talks to stops and thinks, "Oh yeah, that hero of the Republic, the guy who blew up the Death Star, and then just in case he hadn't made his point, did it again, and helped found the Republic, with his sster Leia... That dude? Isn't he a Jedi? Why don't you go talk to him?" :lol:

EDIT:
Also, if Baby Yoda isn't back in the Mandalorian in tie for the Season 3 premiere, there's going to be a fucking riot. Disney, I HAVE to believe, isn't stupid enough to try to continue the show without him. I'm not sure how they're going to do it, but the majority of people i know watching this aren't here for the history of Mandalore or the Darksaber or Boba Fett, they're here fr Baby Yoda.
I agree with pretty much all of this.

Obviously this episode was designed to make you wonder if we'd seen the last of Grogu, since the goodbye felt so damn final. But in the real world, "Baby Yoda" is too big of a property to discard to Luke to parts unknown, to be killed off by Ben Solo/Kylo Ren in a few years.

Honestly, I'm pretty peeved that they didn't just adapt the Zahn trilogy for the sequel trilogy, and this just adds more to it, because The Mandalorian is constrained by it to an extent. The sequel trilogy is like Van Halen's III album. You're a big fan, you want to love it, and you pretend to for at least a little while. But then you finally admit to yourself and others that it really is a big pile of shit. At least Lucas had a strategy with the prequels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #117 ·
I agree with pretty much all of this.

Obviously this episode was designed to make you wonder if we'd seen the last of Grogu, since the goodbye felt so damn final. But in the real world, "Baby Yoda" is too big of a property to discard to Luke to parts unknown, to be killed off by Ben Solo/Kylo Ren in a few years.

Honestly, I'm pretty peeved that they didn't just adapt the Zahn trilogy for the sequel trilogy, and this just adds more to it, because The Mandalorian is constrained by it to an extent. The sequel trilogy is like Van Halen's III album. You're a big fan, you want to love it, and you pretend to for at least a little while. But then you finally admit to yourself and others that it really is a big pile of shit. At least Lucas had a strategy with the prequels.
It's EXTREME cynicism, perhaps... but he's either back at some point in Season 3, or we get a Grogu spinoff series, and everyone stops giving a shit about the Mandalorian. :lol:

Shit, though... If John Favreau can really have Grogu go off with Luke, not come back, and actually retain his viewership as the series transitions into what looks like it could very well be Din's attempts to reforge the Mandalorian society as their new ruler... Dude really CAN walk on water. :lol:

And yeah, it's tough... it's not like anything about the trilogy itself, in the moment you're watching it, is bad - the special effects are good where they need to be, but don't try to be the star of the show and the reliance on practical effects rather than CGI really adds a lot, even if it's subtle... The characters are good, the acting is good, the dialogue is good, for the most part (fucking end of 9, lol) the relationships between the characters feel believable... the pseudoscientific-religious mumbo jumbo is faiely brief and mercifully contained mostly to the first of the three... There are some GREAT scenes, some really great moments, and some parts I legitimately loved (I may be in the minority, but the rebel leader taunting the First Order captain over the radio at the start of 8 with a mom joke was unexpectedly awesome)... But when you pan back a bit, 1 and 3 are working at cross purposes to 2 from a narrative point, there's no common vision or narrative or overarching storyline, and it's mostly just a hodge-podge of slavish fan service (again, 1 and 3 being the worst, and 2's pushing back against that and becoming SO controversial for things like Luke being old and bitter rayher than the hero of the original trilogy, or one entire storyline ending in failure rather than a dramatic success, and that being the point of that storyline...), with the Kylo/Rey romance being dropped in out of nowhere, just in time for her to, surprise! go fight her grandfather Palpatine...

One thing i'll say for the final one, though, was the final fight scene and the way it used the Kylo/Rey connection was actually pretty ingenious. That movie needed a whole lot more of that, and a whole lot less of using a mysterious knife that happened to be shaped at exactly the contour of the wreckage of the death star, or Rey needing to be SOMEONE important's kid.
 

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To be honest, this is pretty consistent with how Star Wars has always worked. A New Hope is only like 20 years after Revenge of the Sith, yet Han talks about the Jedi as if they're a myth, Tarkin calls them an ancient religion, and that other guy on the Death Star mocks Vader as some delusional religious loony. Mandalorian takes place what, like five years after Jedi? Yet apparently Din has never heard of the Jedi, and the armorer refers to them as some ancient race of sorcerers.

It actually seems to be kind a running theme: in this universe they have faster than light travel and lasers and advanced robotic prosthetics, but communication technology seems weirdly primitive? How many of these movies/shows involve plots where people have to physically ferry sensitive information to someone instead of just...putting it in a fucking email or something? It's probably explained in some tie-in novel or comic book that the Empire monitors the galactic internet and so to securely transmit information you have to hand-deliver it, I dunno. Even Game of Thrones eventually just treated the ravens as email and therefore its characters seem to have had an easier time contacting one another and more up-to-date on contemporary politics than the ones in Star Wars :lol:

Anyway, my point is most (all?) of the Mandalorian episodes takes place on pretty backwater worlds, so it's not entirely surprising to me that everyone might be a bit behind on galactic geopolitics. Ahsoka is a Jedi sure, but she's also just been off doing her own thing and gave up contact with the Jedi Order back when it still existed. Shit, no one else on the bridge of that ship seemed to recognize
Skywalker
either. You'd think that a former rebel/current New Republic official like Cara Dune or an Imperial officer like Moff Gideon would have known.
You know, your point on the shockingly bad communications infrastructure in the Star Wars world is actually really well taken. :lol: In the mid70s when Lucas was first dreaming up this project, I don't know if mobile phones had existed in some primitive fashion, but we had computers and the beginnings of the information age, and certainly this stuff was all part of science fiction by then. A translator droid capable of speaking millions of languages, and another droid capable of recording and playing back a holographic message were believable... but a way of that droid connecting itself to a starship and transmitting that message somewhere else, instead of physically being brought to the recipient of the message, were not? :lol:
 

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You know, your point on the shockingly bad communications infrastructure in the Star Wars world is actually really well taken. :lol: In the mid70s when Lucas was first dreaming up this project, I don't know if mobile phones had existed in some primitive fashion, but we had computers and the beginnings of the information age, and certainly this stuff was all part of science fiction by then. A translator droid capable of speaking millions of languages, and another droid capable of recording and playing back a holographic message were believable... but a way of that droid connecting itself to a starship and transmitting that message somewhere else, instead of physically being brought to the recipient of the message, were not? :lol:
hehe the points about communication are pretty valid. William Gibson said his son busted on Neuromancer as a book where its supposed to be the future, but nobody had cellphones.

My main problem with Star Wars is it has piss poor continuity and too many gray areas. In an effort to fix the mess they heavy-handedly nuked the entirety of the extended universe for a do-over, but then really didn't do anything to fix anything.
 

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You know, your point on the shockingly bad communications infrastructure in the Star Wars world is actually really well taken. :lol: In the mid70s when Lucas was first dreaming up this project, I don't know if mobile phones had existed in some primitive fashion, but we had computers and the beginnings of the information age, and certainly this stuff was all part of science fiction by then. A translator droid capable of speaking millions of languages, and another droid capable of recording and playing back a holographic message were believable... but a way of that droid connecting itself to a starship and transmitting that message somewhere else, instead of physically being brought to the recipient of the message, were not? :lol:
:lol:

In fairness I do think a lot of this is just for dramatic tension + so much of the Star Wars aesthetic is basically slapping a sci fi skin and some space Buddhism over shit from WW2 and samurai movies. Having to do some cloak and dagger stuff or run a blockade to pass along a secret message is a lot more interesting than sending it over Signal, you know? :lol:

My main problem with Star Wars is it has piss poor continuity and too many gray areas. In an effort to fix the mess they heavy-handedly nuked the entirety of the extended universe for a do-over, but then really didn't do anything to fix anything.
I was way into the EU stuff as a kid but to be fair a lot of it was fucking terrible/ not nearly as cool as we thought it was when we were 12. :lol: I also do think it would have made it prohibitively difficult to do anything interesting story wise if you could never contradict 40 years of what basically amounts to official fan fiction. Unfortunately their record on the "doing anything interesting story wise" half of that is pretty spotty so far. There are some promising nuggets here and there but then yeah, a lot of confused bullshit or empty nostalgia too.
 
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