[Elysian]

Came out yesterday, anyone else using it? I'm loving it, very fast, loads up fast as hell, the new skin owns face, and its just all around smoother feeling. Spell check in text boxes is great as well.

Opera Web Browser | Faster & safer | Download the new Internet browsers free

Exclusive Opera Turbo compression boosts slow connection speeds

Innovative visual tabs displays Web sites in thumbnails

Intuitive, sleek design

Easy-to-personalize Speed Dial visual bookmarks

Everything built-in, no need for extensions

Speed dial can also be fully customized now, you can add more entries and change the background, something I've wanted for ages, ever since Speed Dial came out.

Optimized for Web applications

The new Opera Presto 2.2 engine in Opera 10 is up to 40% faster on resource-intensive pages such as Gmail and Facebook. In addition, with an Acid3 100/100 score, Web Fonts support, RGBA/HSLA color and SVG improvements, Opera 10 is ready for the next generation of Web applications.

 

[Drew]

Haven't checked it out yet, but ever since downloading Firefox since my company will only support that as an alternative to IE, I've sort of been toying with the idea of switching over to Firefox altogether.

I feel weird about that, since I've been an Opera user since, like, 2001.

 

[79]

I won't use Opera because I think they're a bunch of fucktards as a company. I don't even use it on the BB anymore.

 

[Drew]

I won't use Opera because I think they're a bunch of fucktards as a company. I don't even use it on the BB anymore.

:lol: Tell us how you really feel.

Though, I am curious. Why are they fucktards?

 

[Thomas]

I used to Opera before I switched back to Firefox a few months ago. My main problem with Opera is, or was, that its GUI doesn't integrate very well with a darker color scheme on Linux. Even if it's fixed in this new release, I think I'll stick to Firefox just because I've gotten used to it now. :lol:

 

[Elysian]

I won't use Opera because I think they're a bunch of fucktards as a company. I don't even use it on the BB anymore.

Yeah, I don't get this. I just use their browser, I have no idea what they do as a company. Not to mention, their browser completely owns the BB browser, the only reason not to use it is out of spite.

 

[Elysian]

I used to Opera before I switched back to Firefox a few months ago. My main problem with Opera is, or was, that its GUI doesn't integrate very well with a darker color scheme on Linux. Even if it's fixed in this new release, I think I'll stick to Firefox just because I've gotten used to it now. :lol:

Opera on Linux has always been a little weird. It never looks right, the menu bar, the colors, etc. I don't get why it's that way...

 

[Thomas]

Opera on Linux has always been a little weird. It never looks right, the menu bar, the colors, etc. I don't get why it's that way...

I just gave it a go, and it's actually usable with the standard theme this time. No white text on white backgrounds, and the menus now look the same as in KDE/QT applications. :yesway:

 

[79]

:lol: Tell us how you really feel.

Though, I am curious. Why are they fucktards?

The bullshit hoops they're petitioning to the EU for Microsoft to comply with for Internet Explorer and Windows 7. First they wanted a version sold without Internet Explorer 8.

Then they wanted a ballot system upon install for Windows. Then they bitched because IE8 was at the top of the list when the prompt comes up to download a browser, and they felt that was wrong.

I think they're sore losers because they have a shitty market share. Not only that, but I think their browser is shitty anyway, and much prefer Safari, FF, or Chrome to it any day. But that's subjective.

Yeah, I don't get this. I just use their browser, I have no idea what they do as a company. Not to mention, their browser completely owns the BB browser, the only reason not to use it is out of spite.

Yeah, pretty much. But I don't do a lot of web browsing on the BB anyway, because compared to Safari on the iPod Touch, both the BB browser and Opera suck anyway.

 

[Drew]

The bullshit hoops they're petitioning to the EU for Microsoft to comply with for Internet Explorer and Windows 7. First they wanted a version sold without Internet Explorer 8.

While their subsequent claims, near as I can tell, seem to have less merit, that I think is a pretty fair complaint - that Microsoft is effectively leveraging its near-monopoly on the PC operating system market into a near-monopoly on the web browser market, since IE (a shitty app) is being presented as the default, and you have to actively go out and install something else if you don't want to use it.

I mean, imagine if Microsoft also shipped all its operating systems with a decent FTP client, priced as a package deal - would FTP software providers have a legitimate leg to stand on if they sued saying Microsoft was using unfair business practices to boost their market share?

 

[Josh]

And thus we end up back in the antitrust case brought up against Microsoft in the late 90s. Thankfully, we do have good options these days other than IE, and my first use of IE on any new system is to go and download FireFox (after running Windows Update, which is IE only.)

However, it does bring up an interesting dilemma: Microsoft does not program or support Firefox, Opera, or Chrome, nor is it their job to support those companies and their products. If Mozilla released a FF version with a huge problem or vulnerability and Microsoft packaged it in with their OS, then Microsoft would have to deal with the repercussions of Mozilla's choices. Instead, when someone has a problem with IE, they can directly work on it to fix it and can be held accountable for that software's flaws.

It's not a perfect system, but the way I see it (and I could be wrong, I'm no programmer) if I was building an OS I'd be a little leery of packaging someone else's product in with it, especially if I had my own tested software in place in that OS. This is even more important when it comes to something like OS updates.

 

[79]

While their subsequent claims, near as I can tell, seem to have less merit, that I think is a pretty fair complaint - that Microsoft is effectively leveraging its near-monopoly on the PC operating system market into a near-monopoly on the web browser market, since IE (a shitty app) is being presented as the default, and you have to actively go out and install something else if you don't want to use it.

I mean, imagine if Microsoft also shipped all its operating systems with a decent FTP client, priced as a package deal - would FTP software providers have a legitimate leg to stand on if they sued saying Microsoft was using unfair business practices to boost their market share?

Windows has always had a built-in FTP client, and it works fine. The problem is that it isn't as full featured as 3rd party apps, so no one has bitched about it. Same goes for firewall, back up utility, disk defragmenter, etc. At what point do you draw the line and say something is a part of the OS? Should MS take all of these out too, and make you add them back in optionally because there is 3rd party competition?

Microsoft offering to allow the removal of IE in Windows 7 was their choice; it was not mandated by the EU. That was not good enough for Opera. So MS, on their own, decided to come up with the "ballot" system where at install it would prompt which browser it should go and install. But that wasn't good enough for Opera, because IE was at the top of the list.

Now, why on God's green Earth should MS have to bend to the will of Opera when it's their OS? They've already gone out of their way to accommodate them.

As far as I'm concerned, Opera is free to come out with their own operating system and put Opera as the default.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge MS fan, and even when I am using Windows it sure as hell isn't IE. But no one is forcing you to use IE.

It's like telling a car company "we really don't want you to encourage using your parts, even though they're certified for use with your cars. We'd like to see you promote these aftermarket parts that may or may not fit, and might even cause issues".

Also, it's all very amusing because you cannot install OS X without installing Safari. You cannot install Ubuntu (generally speaking, without mucking with the install disk) without installing FF. No one's bitching about that. Why? Because they're not a monopoly.

I disagree with that. What's good for MS should be good for everyone, and vice versa.

 

[Drew]

Jeff, I agree by the time you get to the "ballot" thing, it gets pretty silly. I still don't think the basic claim is off base, though, that Microsoft gives IE an unfair competitive advantage by bundling it with Windows.

Also, I think what's good for Microsoft is pretty clearly NOT good for everyone - they've been accused, justly as I understand, of programming back doors in their OS so that Microsoft products can use them to run faster than any comparable rival, to make their own products more attractive. I think it's hard to argue that doing that is good for anyone but Microsoft.

Though, there's an interesting note in all of this - you need SOME sort of a browser to get on the web to get other browsers. I guess the fact MS is now allowing you to uninstall IE in future versions of Windows is a step in the right direction, but the fact that historically it was so tightly coded into the OS was definitely a big issue, IMO.

Anyway, this is the first time I've ever seen someone stick up for Microsoft's business practices on the net. :lol:

 

[79]

Jeff, I agree by the time you get to the "ballot" thing, it gets pretty silly. I still don't think the basic claim is off base, though, that Microsoft gives IE an unfair competitive advantage by bundling it with Windows.

The claim isn't off base, but it's over the line as far as it's been taken, IMO.

Also, I think what's good for Microsoft is pretty clearly NOT good for everyone - they've been accused, justly as I understand, of programming back doors in their OS so that Microsoft products can use them to run faster than any comparable rival, to make their own products more attractive. I think it's hard to argue that doing that is good for anyone but Microsoft.

Though, there's an interesting note in all of this - you need SOME sort of a browser to get on the web to get other browsers. I guess the fact MS is now allowing you to uninstall IE in future versions of Windows is a step in the right direction, but the fact that historically it was so tightly coded into the OS was definitely a big issue, IMO.

While I obviously don't think it's right for them to code back doors like that, the second part is quite important; you generally need something on there to go download something else, and most people aren't well versed enough at FTP to just use Windows Explorer to download something.

Anyway, this is the first time I've ever seen someone stick up for Microsoft's business practices on the net. :lol:

And I'm primarily a Mac user.

 

[Drew]

I know, it's a little surreal. :lol:

 

[79]

Could this be why Opera are the ones complaining the loudest?

As of July 2009, usage data on English-language sites show Opera's share of the browser market as being just around 2%

:lol:

 

[Drew]

It was less than 1% when I started using it - that's 100% growth in 6 years! :woohoo:

 

[noodles]

The bullshit hoops they're petitioning to the EU for Microsoft to comply with for Internet Explorer and Windows 7. First they wanted a version sold without Internet Explorer 8.

Then they wanted a ballot system upon install for Windows. Then they bitched because IE8 was at the top of the list when the prompt comes up to download a browser, and they felt that was wrong.

I think they're sore losers because they have a shitty market share. Not only that, but I think their browser is shitty anyway, and much prefer Safari, FF, or Chrome to it any day. But that's subjective.

Microsoft is the one browser on the market that his it's own set of web standards. They don't want to follow HTML, or any of the other established web standards. Hell, they don't even follow their own standards from browser to browser. So, if you're in the business of developing a web app, you have to do testing on IE6, IE7, and IE8. All other browser testing can be done with Firefox, Opera, Safari...pick one, it doesn't matter, since it really doesn't matter, they all show pages pretty much the same.

Microsoft is big enough that they think they can control the web, and have been doing a pretty good job at it. Since IE is practically only available for Windows (occasionally they release some antiquated, crippled, slow, shitty release for another OS), it has the effect of also killing other desktop OS market share, forcing people to Windows.

Fuck Microsoft, and fuck their business practices. If Opera wants to force Microsoft to jump through all sorts of ridiculous hoops, then I applaud them. Thanks for pointing this out, since I'm now going to download their browser and give it a shot, because anyone that sticks it to the company sticking it to all of us deserves me support. :yesway:

 

[noodles]

Also, it's all very amusing because you cannot install OS X without installing Safari. You cannot install Ubuntu (generally speaking, without mucking with the install disk) without installing FF. No one's bitching about that. Why? Because they're not a monopoly.

I disagree with that. What's good for MS should be good for everyone, and vice versa.

However, Ubuntu and Apple never tried to integrate their web browser so deep into the operating system that it cannot be removed. However, this is exactly what Microsoft did. The whole antitrust thing in the 90s stemmed from the inability to actually uninstall IE without breaking the operating system.

Yet you complain about Opera's business practices? That is like complaining about the flies getting into your house through the door the thieves left open while they were stealing your TV. I mean, really, Jeff? Really?

 

[343]

Microsoft is the one browser on the market that his it's own set of web standards. They don't want to follow HTML, or any of the other established web standards. Hell, they don't even follow their own standards from browser to browser. So, if you're in the business of developing a web app, you have to do testing on IE6, IE7, and IE8. All other browser testing can be done with Firefox, Opera, Safari...pick one, it doesn't matter, since it really doesn't matter, they all show pages pretty much the same.

It does matter what browser and what operating system you use. Yes mozilla based ones will be close to each other in how they render css but there are very noticeable differences between them and in how OS X and windows versions render pages.

Both OS X and windows versions have things they do not render properly.
This is why there are companies like browsershots and browsercam out there - to help easily test every os/browser combination.

Microsoft is big enough that they think they can control the web, and have been doing a pretty good job at it. Since IE is practically only available for Windows (occasionally they release some antiquated, crippled, slow, shitty release for another OS), it has the effect of also killing other desktop OS market share, forcing people to Windows.

After the anti trust lawsuit IE is a stand alone program. (IIRC) everything IE6 and previous were part of the windows operating system. This was the real problem with "Controlling the internet" and steps were taken to stop it. (and also why ie6 is complete garbage HEY LETS MAKE ALL KIND OF SPECIAL STUFF THAT ONLY WORKS ON OUR BROWSER )

No browser out now meets css 3.0 standards (Heck most of them just got around to 2.0) even tho the 3.0 specifications have been out for quite some time. I shudder to think about the internet trainwreck once html 5.0 goes live.

Microsoft has kind of boned themselves. Tons of companies developed web apps that relied heavily on ie6 to work (and wont work without it)

Now these companies are stuck having to have everything recoded to be browser neutral. (Can be a pretty expensive and time consuming thing to fix). A lot of people are going to be saying screw IE and looking for something else (hopefully without the headaches)

I would say Microsoft are going to get what they deserve in the browser wars. FF is taking more and more machines. Chrome is starting to pick up a bit (Tho IMO google are as bad as microsoft even tho their motto is "Dont be evil"...)