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ENGLErnieBallGraphTechBKP
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306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys

I'm going to be putting Graph Tech's Acousti-Phonic and Ghost Saddle system into my 8 string soon, and I'm trying to figure out the best and most cost-effective way of switching between Piezo's and Mags at speed. On one of my tracks particularly (The Epic) I'll play Acoustic in the verses, and jump immediately to heavy Rhythm tone for Choruses. The obvious method I see is a switch on the Guitar, and a footswitch for the amp, but that sounds like hassle to me.

Considering how much I love Midi, I was thinking the best way would be if I wired everything up in Stereo in the Guitar (pin 1 for Mags, pin 2 for Piezo), used a stereo cable to go from the Guitar into a G Lab LMS-1 (Midi controllable A/B box) and from there into my Amp, which I could store presets that jump between Clean with FX, and Rhythm tone at the touch of a pedal on my floorboard.

The only problem with my idea is that if I broke a string on the Graph Tech loaded Guitar and switched to another, I'd have to switch cables too, as I couldn't afford to put in more than 1 Piezo system right now, and if I connected a non-piezo Guitar to a stereo cable, it'd mess up the pins which power the EMG's.

In an ideal world, I'd either have an Axe FX, or two Gmajor2's running different settings for Mags and Piezo, but alas I don't have the funds for that either. What I'm left with is one Guitar with piezo's, one without, an ENGL Invader head, with a Gmajor2 in the loop. I would prefer not to have to cut holes in my Guitar for switching between Mags and Piezos, nor replace the Pickup switch with a 4/5/6 way if I can help it. I'd just want to press a pedal on my floorboard and it's all done. The LMS-1 seems to be the way to go ....

Any better ideas out there? lol
 

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Mr. Negative Pants, ,
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14,796 Posts
The only way to go is with a stereo output, with the mags going to the amp and the piezos going DI to the FOH. The MIDI-controlled A/B box is a great idea, except you really want two inputs and two outputs that can be switched.

I use this:



Here's the schematic:

 

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ENGLErnieBallGraphTechBKP
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306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The only way to go is with a stereo output, with the mags going to the amp and the piezos going DI to the FOH. The MIDI-controlled A/B box is a great idea, except you really want two inputs and two outputs that can be switched.

I use this:



Here's the schematic:

Aha, did you happen to post that on either the TC Electronic forum or Ernie Ball one? I've definitely seen that pedal before, thinking it was a genius idea. Someone should mass produce it :D
 

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Mr. Negative Pants, ,
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14,796 Posts
Yeah, i may have posted it in both... definitely on the EB forum.

It always struck me as the most logical way to switch/blend the two sounds, and i was amazed that nobody had done this before. I contemplated making them for people, but i hate soldering. :D

It would be awesome if something like this went into production, but i can't see there being a huge market for them. That said, i think anybody that regularly uses mag/piezo sounds would instantly love this if they tried it.
 

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ENGLErnieBallGraphTechBKP
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306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah, i may have posted it in both... definitely on the EB forum.

It always struck me as the most logical way to switch/blend the two sounds, and i was amazed that nobody had done this before. I contemplated making them for people, but i hate soldering. :D

It would be awesome if something like this went into production, but i can't see there being a huge market for them. That said, i think anybody that regularly uses mag/piezo sounds would instantly love this if they tried it.
I agree, but then the best ideas always seem like they should be obvious right? lol.

Have you tried asking www.mission-engineering.com if they would be interested in making them? They already make pedals that look like them and it'd be a doddle for them to do.

One question I have regarding Mags and Piezos, is .... is there likely to be a difference in output level?
 

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ENGLErnieBallGraphTechBKP
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306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Dont most peizo preamps have a trimpot for adjusting the output gain vs. the non peizo signal?
Not sure that's why I was asking lol. My Graph Tech order isn't here yet so I haven't used one before.
 

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Mr. Negative Pants, ,
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Wirelessly posted (Dethphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

The Acoustiphonic preamp does have a trim pot on the board.

However, magnetic and piezo pickups really shouldn't be run into the same amp. Piezos sound best going to a PA or full-range amp, so volume differences can be compensated for that way.
 

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ENGLErnieBallGraphTechBKP
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306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wirelessly posted (Dethphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

The Acoustiphonic preamp does have a trim pot on the board.

However, magnetic and piezo pickups really shouldn't be run into the same amp. Piezos sound best going to a PA or full-range amp, so volume differences can be compensated for that way.
Yeah ideally I'd have the piezo going into it's own FX processor and then DI into the PA ..... I just don't have any more money for the project right now :-/

I think ideally an Axe FX would end all my problems lol
 

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Canis lupis robertus
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5,706 Posts
Here's how I do it -

1. Magnetic out runs into Digitech processor, which -
- A) runs (stereo) out into amp. My amp is set for a more FRFR type sound, evening using an EQ. I use dedicated power amp ins on the amp, bypass the preamp completely (which is why I use a processor.)
- B) runs stereo out into the PA system.

2. Piezo out runs into Yamaha Magicstomp processor (best acoustic modeling preamp for piezo pickups out there), which -
- A) runs (stereo) out into amp, same as above,
- B) runs stereo into PA system.

I've used this exact setup for years. I use no pedal for switching between acoustic and electric sounds, as I just use the 3-way (mag/both/piezo) switch on my guitar.

Hope that helps!
 

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ENGLErnieBallGraphTechBKP
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306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Here's how I do it -

1. Magnetic out runs into Digitech processor, which -
- A) runs (stereo) out into amp. My amp is set for a more FRFR type sound, evening using an EQ. I use dedicated power amp ins on the amp, bypass the preamp completely (which is why I use a processor.)
- B) runs stereo out into the PA system.

2. Piezo out runs into Yamaha Magicstomp processor (best acoustic modeling preamp for piezo pickups out there), which -
- A) runs (stereo) out into amp, same as above,
- B) runs stereo into PA system.

I've used this exact setup for years. I use no pedal for switching between acoustic and electric sounds, as I just use the 3-way (mag/both/piezo) switch on my guitar.

Hope that helps!
Hey dude

I agree, I think the 3-way switch is probably the best way to go after all. If the mags and piezo are already setup with however you want them processed, it'd just be a case of a switch flick for one or the other.

Anyone ever come across the now discontinued Boss AD-5? I'm really keen on getting one, as they seem to be the only thing out there that'd really suit my needs. Even the replacement units (AD-3 and AD-8) just don't seem as appropriate. The AD-5 has a D.I. output, chorus and reverb, with acoustic and/or piezo input. Nothing else out there seems to tick all those boxes. The TC Electronic G-Natural seems overkill and has no D.I. output at all, whereas everything else on the market have D.I. but no effects.

Incidentally anyone with an AD-5 wanting to sell it, let me know lol :D
 

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Read Only
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No, I have a 2027 too, and the whole second perma-setup for the piezo that he runs sounds like something I really want to do. :lol:

(Bob = The Dark Wolf)
 

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ENGLErnieBallGraphTechBKP
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306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Couldn't you just use a second input/output on the Axe-FX as a dedicated acoustic path?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

lol this is exactly what I would do if I HAD one, but I won't afford anything like that for a long time, and I hate reading how happy people are that have an Axe Fx lol :D
 

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ENGLErnieBallGraphTechBKP
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306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
No, I have a 2027 too, and the whole second perma-setup for the piezo that he runs sounds like something I really want to do. :lol:

(Bob = The Dark Wolf)
I wouldn't mind if the whole lot was Midi'd together using my Gordius Little Giant. That's why I was thinking of getting the G Lab LMS-1, but as someone pointed out, an Engl Invader is hardly the best way to output a Piezo :-/
 

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ENGLErnieBallGraphTechBKP
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306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Can do the same thing with a POD X3 Live or Pro, it just won't sound as sexy :lol:
I dunno man, I've never been a Line 6 fan. I can't comment on their new HD range which might be cool, but I've never really dug their overdrive sounds.

Although (off topic) their tuners are absolutely incredible. I have a Micro Spider to teach with, and the tuner in that kicks the shit out of any rack tuner or rack FX with a built in tuner, that I've ever used or seen. Not only can it handle a low F#, but you can shred away and it'll tell you every note as they happen. That damn practise combo was worth it just for that tuner I can tell ya!
 
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