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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, I have decided to post couple of questions after using search function for 3 days (not a joke). Anyway, this looks like an amazing forum and the amount of information I got in these 3 days is better than anything I found elsewhere in 3 weeks. I apologize for wall of text, but I usually like to think aloud and make the answers as close to "Yes" / "No" as they possible. People usually don't like to write long answers. :)

So I've decided to start playing, or better said start learning how to play guitar. So I am complete a noob. No gigs now and I don't really have plans to have any in the future. However I can get pretty serious about my hobbies and I don't like cheapish stuff. I also don't know how fast I will learn, maybe I am complete anti-talent. Therefore I don't want to spend too much, it would be overkill for my level anyway. Some of the questions, I know, will be completely basic for you, but please bear in mind that I don't have a clue.

For now I would prefer to stay with my local shop and what they can offer. I want to have someone handy and I can probably get a bit better deal as well. My budget is supposed to be limited at 1500 EUR, preferably less. I have decided to buy an ESP LTD EC-1000 with EMGs. Why? I don't know, they just look ok and I like the sound I have heard from players playing online.

Based on my lifestyle and where I live I estimate that one third of my playing will be done with headphones. I was thinking about buying Shure for around 150 EUR, so playing with headphones is kind of important.

I wanted to get RP500 + small tube combo amp, but after I saw that the last guy insisting on it got banned, I started looking at other options. ;) It seems to me that a lot of you prefer GPS1101. Can someone explain to me, what is the difference? I assume that the sound of emulated amp model, for example, is the same? I understand that GPS1101 is labeled as preamp and RP500/RP1000 is not, but I thought I read somewhere, that RP500/RP1000 is able to do the same? I guess I don't understand very well, what is the difference between these two setups:
- RP500 with only effects, no emulation --> Combo amp
- GPS1101 with only effects, no emulation --> Same Combo amp
The Combo amp has its own preamp part, so where does GPS1101 come in? If GPS1101 preamp just "takes over", does this mean that it is better than combo amp with tubes preamp section? Why would you want to use GPS1101 preamp over preamp that combo amp has? What exactly happens with such GPS1101 setup? I'm sure I am terribly misunderstanding something here.

I understand that one can buy only poweramp, so maybe that is the answer to my first question. Would that mean that GPS1101 as preamp only makes sense if I buy separate poweramp to go with it? If so, I don't have much choice, there is only Marshall EL84-20-20 available and I don't like sound of Marshall amps. I know, not a lot of choice, they could certainly order something else though, if that is what I need.

If I don't buy poweramp, what exactly are my options? What would you do? Here are the things available:
RP500/1000, GPS1101, Laney/Engl/Behringer combo amps, Engl/Laney heads, Laney/Engl/Behringer cabs.

Is there any combination here, that doesn't work? If they are all ok, what are disadvantages of them?

Damn this really is a wall of text. :eek: Sorry about that.
 

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I have decided to buy an ESP LTD EC-1000 with EMGs. Why? I don't know, they just look ok and I like the sound I have heard from players playing online.
I wouldn't judge the by people's video clips, cause there's so many variables. However, I have owned another guitar from the LTD 1000 series (The M-1000) and have played EC-1000s. It's a solid selection, and with a good setup, should be more than adequate for a long time to come.

I wanted to get RP500 + small tube combo amp, but after I saw that the last guy insisting on it got banned, I started looking at other options. ;) It seems to me that a lot of you prefer GPS1101. Can someone explain to me, what is the difference? I assume that the sound of emulated amp model, for example, is the same? I understand that GPS1101 is labeled as preamp and RP500/RP1000 is not, but I thought I read somewhere, that RP500/RP1000 is able to do the same? I guess I don't understand very well, what is the difference between these two setups:
- RP500 with only effects, no emulation --> Combo amp
- GPS1101 with only effects, no emulation --> Same Combo amp
The Combo amp has its own preamp part, so where does GPS1101 come in? If GPS1101 preamp just "takes over", does this mean that it is better than combo amp with tubes preamp section? Why would you want to use GPS1101 preamp over preamp that combo amp has? What exactly happens with such GPS1101 setup? I'm sure I am terribly misunderstanding something here.
That guy got banned cause he was a tool :lol:
GSP1101 is Digitech's most recent modelling preamp. I havent played them, but many people think they're great. I'll let others chime in on that.

If you're using a combo amp to amplify the GSP1101, you can either plug it in between your guitar and the amp, or use the 4 cable method (if the combo has all the inputs from it) or in the effects loop (Also, if the combo has it). If you don't want to use the combo amp's preamp, you can just set everything to nuetral on the clean channel.

I understand that one can buy only poweramp, so maybe that is the answer to my first question. Would that mean that GPS1101 as preamp only makes sense if I buy separate poweramp to go with it? If so, I don't have much choice, there is only Marshall EL84-20-20 available and I don't like sound of Marshall amps. I know, not a lot of choice, they could certainly order something else though, if that is what I need..
If you're plugging into a combo, you don't need a power amp. The combo will have one built into it. If you get one, you'll end up needing to get some kind of speaker cabinet to play that through. It'd probably be easier, and cheaper to start out with a combo amp of some kind.
 

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The GSP is a preamp and effects processor in a rack unit. It has more varied options than a standard amp has, most amps have clean/distorted and maybe lead channels and an EQ for those. The digitech has digital models of many different amps so you get more sounds and effect on top of that.
I'd recommend you get a nice combo for the GSP, but make sure the amp you buy has an effects loop. This way you can use the GSP as a preamp through the loop. It's a great way to run it and you can still use the combo on it's own when you want. I've run mine through a poweramp and cab for gigs and also through a peavey bandit at home for practicing on a day to day basis and both ways was fine.

I'd have to say though, since you are beginning, maybe you should leave the GSP out and just buy a half decent practice amp. When you start off, you really don't want to be too distracted with options and effects, you want to focus more on learning to play. It took me a few years to really even develop a good ear for tone and to get the knowledge on how to use effects half decently.
 

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I'd have to say though, since you are beginning, maybe you should leave the GSP out and just buy a half decent practice amp. When you start off, you really don't want to be too distracted with options and effects, you want to focus more on learning to play. It took me a few years to really even develop a good ear for tone and to get the knowledge on how to use effects half decently.
:agreed: +1000
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks for replies, I think I understand these connections a bit better now.

Still couple of decisions left...

Why not just GPS1101, without the combo amp? Perhaps in couple of months I could get something better, if I feel the need for it. At this moment my cheapest tube option (with FX loop) is Laney CUB12R for 320 EUR. I am not sure, how much better it would be, any opinions? The next on the list is Laney LC30-112 for 600 EUR. I think I would prefer to do the baby steps just with GPS1101 and maybe next year I can save the money for a really good amp - if I happen to get somewhere with my ability.

Of course I would still need to get cab... They are all pretty strong though, so I am not sure if I'm thinking the right way.

Crate GT112SL € 159.00
Laney CUB-CAB € 177.00
ENGL E110 GIGMASTER CABINET € 179.00
Crate GT412ST € 199.00
Behringer BG412H € 199.00
Behringer BG412S € 199.00
Laney LX412S € 235.00
Laney LX412A € 235.00

For just 120 EUR more I have the amp, which is much more useful for playing at home. How would you compare both options?
GPS1101 + Laney CUB12R
GPS1101 + one of the cabs on the list

Edit: Ok, I missed some of the speakers there... for example
Laney CX10-A 180 EUR active
or
Laney CX10 110 EUR passive

So I could also those in the mix...
 

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Retarded P.A Overlord.
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Does your local store not do the Engl Gigmaster combo? Like Demeyes said and Naren seconded, too many options when you start off can really confuse, and often put you off playing, this happened with me for a while when I bought a Pod X3 Live.

I had that thing for ages, and while now, I could probably really appreciate the effects I could get from it, it took a good year or 2, and purchasing valve/tube amps and playing the shit out of those to find a tone I could really use. I'll also go on record and say that too many effects can confuse you. My rig at the minute is pretty much as straight forward as I can get it.

Front of amp:
Guitar > Boost > Noise Gate > Amp

FX Loop:
Send > Noise Gate > Return

That's only 2 pedals, and 5 cables (6 if you include the one from head to cab, which you won't need if you're running a combo). If you bought the Engl, I'd probably say you'd get away with not needing a boost too.

If I needed a practice amp, I'd get the Engl without a doubt, but I'm trying to sell a Blackstar HT-5 at the minute, since my S1-100 drops from 100w to 10w, I don't need it :lol:

If you want pics of how my set-up is run, I'll get some taken for you :)
 

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NSLALP
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If you do not like the amplifiers we like, you get the Banhammer. Toe the line. :agreed:

:lol: EC-1000 is a great guitar man... but I always recommend you play one first. Maybe they can order one because you're serious about buying it, but you can reserve the right to pick something else if it doesn't do it for ya.
 

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I think the LTD's a great choice for a first guitar. :yesway: It's good looking, fixed bridge (you don't want to start out on a floating trem, it'll just add frustration) and will last you a long time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Does your local store not do the Engl Gigmaster combo?
It does. And Thunder, Screamer, Raider, Sovereign. However the price is pretty steep... I don't know much about technical stuff and so my ears (and eyes) is everything I have. I am not a big fan of that Engl. For that price I think Blackstar HT-20 would be better. But that is strictly personal feeling, from what I have heard. I know that many people love the Engl.

Like Demeyes said and Naren seconded, too many options when you start off can really confuse, and often put you off playing, this happened with me for a while when I bought a Pod X3 Live.
I hear you and I see the point. However I am slightly older than usually guitar beginners are, so I can get pretty focused at whatever I'm doing. My plans for learning are already made and in the near future it's just drills, drills and drills, basic stuff. Maybe some delay here and there, from what I can see. I am not interested in effects that much at this point. The reason why I like having some of that Digitech stuff is:
- I see much of that functionality as investment in the future. Also some of the stuff I would have to buy even now, for example a tuner. (I know they are cheap)
- I admit I like to have those emulated amps. I am new to the party and just to have an opportunity to try different sounds I believe will show me what can be done, where are the limits. Just a short story... I heard RP1000 demo and really liked couple of the amps. I found out the models were both Mesa based. I checked around a bit more and I immediately fell in love with the beasts. Uncle Google told me the price so I cooled down a bit. Couple of days ago, I found out, that those amps are highly regarded on this forum as well. But my point is, if that RP1000 was good enough for me to pick the sound of - for my music taste - best amps, maybe Digitech is not so bad for me - for now. :) My ear is not trained well enough to catch all the subtle differences that you guys are able to catch. I do know that those Mesa Boogie amps are some serious :metal: though.

I had that thing for ages, and while now, I could probably really appreciate the effects I could get from it, it took a good year or 2, and purchasing valve/tube amps and playing the shit out of those to find a tone I could really use. I'll also go on record and say that too many effects can confuse you. My rig at the minute is pretty much as straight forward as I can get it.

Front of amp:
Guitar > Boost > Noise Gate > Amp

FX Loop:
Send > Noise Gate > Return

That's only 2 pedals, and 5 cables (6 if you include the one from head to cab, which you won't need if you're running a combo). If you bought the Engl, I'd probably say you'd get away with not needing a boost too.

If I needed a practice amp, I'd get the Engl without a doubt, but I'm trying to sell a Blackstar HT-5 at the minute, since my S1-100 drops from 100w to 10w, I don't need it :lol:

If you want pics of how my set-up is run, I'll get some taken for you :)
Thanks, I think I understand... once I understood the 4 cable method I thought that I might have a chance in the biz. :cool: No, but seriously, when a noob reads some of the complex setups like "cable from amp to there and to mixer, from mixer back and then to amp again and back to mixer, and pedal there over here... it is a guaranteed headache!

As you say simplicity is the best.

but I always recommend you play one first.
Yeah... there is one slight problem though... I can barely hold the guitar, so playing around will be a bit tough. :D

I think the LTD's a great choice for a first guitar. :yesway: It's good looking, fixed bridge (you don't want to start out on a floating trem, it'll just add frustration) and will last you a long time.
Yeah I like them. Funny enough, picking the guitar wasn't half as hard as what else to get. That guitar was love at first sight. However, my AMP love at first sight costs too much and would not be rational to get at the moment. :)
 

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I would definitely say that if you're just starting out, going with a complex multi-effect like the GP1101 might be a little overwhelming. My recommendation would be to get a simple, small practice amp like a Roland Cube and upgrade once you're getting a feel for playing and dialing in some basic tones. You can always move up the chain later.
 

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I would definitely say that if you're just starting out, going with a complex multi-effect like the GP1101 might be a little overwhelming. My recommendation would be to get a simple, small practice amp like a Roland Cube and upgrade once you're getting a feel for playing and dialing in some basic tones. You can always move up the chain later.
Definitely agree here.

Get a good sounding combo with some reverb on it as a baseline. Then you can take on the Rite of Passage for all new guitarists: buying fuckloads of different pedals. :lol:

Once you get playing and find out what you like, then it'll be easier to pick an effects unit. Drew (the other admin here) plays his ass off using nothing more than built in reverb and a delay pedal. I, on the other hand, have a $2000 dedicated effects unit.

Different strokes - figure out what your thing is, and go from there. But above all - have fun! :metal:
 

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Gotta agree with the consensus - I own a fairly complex tube head, but it's got nothing on a lot of the modelers when it comes to behind the scenes complexity. I've been playing for something like fourteen years, and if I was to sit down with an AxeFX or something else with that sort of behind the scenes flexibility, I could literalyl lose days just sitting there tweaking and listening to slight changes until I went insane. :lol:

Honestly, my advice for a practice amp would be the Tech-21 Trademark 30, if you can find one. It's a small amp, doesn't need to be very loud to sound good, and is pretty affordable, but it sounds incredible. It's also something you probably won't outgrow - one day you'll want something bigger, probably with tubes, but this is still a great amp to take over to a buddy's place to rock out, and it can keep up with a quiet drummer. I love mine.

EDIT - and Chris, half the time I don't even turn on reverb on the amp. :lol:
 

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Canis lupis robertus
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Welcome!

And I completely agree with what Darren and the rest of hte board are saying as well.

1. Get a decent guitar
2. Get a practice amp
3. Get picks n' cables n' shit. :lol:

A LOT of us started on just horrible, horrible shit. My first guitar when I started playing seriously (had an acoustic at 12, learned a little and fucked around, broke it eventually, got serious at 17) was a shitty fucking thing with 1 string. :lol: 1 string! Then someone found me an electric with a bridge, tuners, and that's it. No electronics! I strung it up anyway. Hooray! I finally had 6-strings! :lol:

So... it taught me a lot, and built some "guitar character," if you will. :D
 

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Retarded P.A Overlord.
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I've just realised, all this talk of amps, and effects, and none of us know what kinda music you're wanting to play mainly :lol: What do you see yourself playing in the future? Also, what kinda price range are you looking at? This could help us alot :lol: Where abouts in Europe are you too?

As far as the Blackstar HT-20, one thing to watch with that is that it has no Stand-by switch, other than that, it has reverb, and if it's anything like the HT-5 I have, it'll be killer sounding too :metal:
 

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I would buy the LTD (although I think a lower line with less bling would do fine too) and a simple modeling amp, like the Tech 21 or Line 6 Spider IV. Both are simple enough to use, and sound WAY better than practice amps sounded when I was a kid starting out.
 

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Mutes the Meat
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+1 on the metronome. I've always neglected using one, and I wish I had used one from the very start.

As far as gear.... most of us started out on cheap guitars and cheap little amps, it's just what you do :cool:

You are just starting out so you need to focus on the playing aspect. You don't even know if you will want to continue playing, or will want to pursue it further, years down the road. My advice is to make a small investment, rather than buying "pro" grade stuff at first. Given your budget you should be able to buy some great midrange stuff to start on.

My first guitar and amp was from this Yamaha combo pack, and holy fuck was it bad :lol: I've since spent thousands on guitar gear mainly because I was playing live shows and such.
 

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After reading OP's posts, if he does do the research and reads the shit out of the manuals for the GSP, why not? He sounds like he's put enough thought into it. Is it what I would do if i had to start all over again? Probably not, but whatever :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Many things to chew...

Thanks for your input. No matter what I do, I appreciate your suggestions. First of all you scared the shit out of me regarding the effects, so even I do get GSP, I'm not touching those, I'll use one of the presets and that's it. Second point, metronome, I will use it from the beginning, good advice.

At the moment I am mostly thinking about the idea to get this:
- GSP
- Cab
with an intention to get a good amp head later if I happen to get somewhere with the whole thing. I found another shop close to me, they have one of the Blackstar models for 1k+ which sounds pretty damn good for my taste as well.

About this idea, is it crazy or it can work well? I heard some good words regarding directly connecting GSP and speakers. Based on the "specifications" on this link:
DigiTech® GSP1101 Multi-Effects Preamp & Processor
what can I expect if I connect it to one of these cabs:
Laney TT412 (615 EUR)
ENGL E212VH (600 EUR)

Will I see much difference compared to the following options:
Laney LX412 (235 EU)
Crate GT412ST (200 EUR)

If I get one of the first two, then the only thing left for me to get (next year) would be a good head. I have this mental block against buying (sorry, obtaining) something that I would have to throw away later. So that is why I came up with this plan... :nuts: Well second part of reason is just that I saw some people getting good sound this way, but they did have also good cab. I just can't give away money for something that "you can replace in 10 months, if you overgrow it". I see it as throwing money out of the window and my rational/logical side (I am a mathematician and I professionally work as a bookmaker, so this part has been trained for a long time!) is talking pretty strong against a cheap practice amp. With this plan I don't lose a single euro.

Where am I thinking wrong? Has anyone any comments regarding those 4 cab models maybe?
 
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