Metal Guitarist Forums banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Sir Groove-A-Lot
Charvel So Cal & San Dimas
Joined
·
6,916 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do you guys recommend anything in particular from stock?

I'm not sure whether this is an intentional difference on the reborn rectos to the previous model(s) but the gain seems to be awfully inactive until you get up to around 2-3 o'clock, which is ridiculously high (this is unboosted, though) when compared to previous models. Like it's very dry and undergained, and doesn't really get juicy and saturated until you're 3/4 full on the dial.

I'm wondering if that's the stock valves on the way out or something, but in any event it got me thinking about preamp valves in general and what would make this amp perform/sound better.

Any recommendations from Recto users?
 

·
The Singlecut King of Northern VA
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
I have a reborn Triple and it seems to have just as much or more gain then my roadking V1 and ractifier revision F.
You are going to get a lot of Tung-sol in V1, I really do not care for it but most people love it, but that tube also lowers the gain a little so I would stay away from it. If you are having that much trouble with the gain you might have a pre-amp going bad or a very low gain pre-amp tube.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,451 Posts
Yeah, V3 might be low gain. Standard for most of us is TungSol in V1, whatever in V2 (I have a JJ but it literally seems to make no difference as long as it's high gain), then Chinese (I have GT12AX7-Cs, which are the same as these:

Penta 12AX7 - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes
), but no Russian tubes in the cathode follower spots (V3 and V4) as they tend to fail.

V5 (phase splitter/output) should be balanced, but otherwise doesn't make a difference. I have a JJ here, too.
 

·
I am Groot
Joined
·
32,450 Posts
Wirelessly posted :)dio:)

If you're new to Rectos, then they seem to make no gain without a boost. It's a perception thing, since the bass bloom just swallows everything, which is what the boost solves. If it still sounds weak with one, then Mike is probably right about V3.

I disagree with Todd, since Rectos most certainly do not need high gain tubes. I'd rather use a better sounding tube and turn the gain up another half a notch.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,451 Posts
Wirelessly posted :)dio:)

If you're new to Rectos, then they seem to make no gain without a boost. It's a perception thing, since the bass bloom just swallows everything, which is what the boost solves. If it still sounds weak with one, then Mike is probably right about V3.
I've found this to be less true with the Reborns than with the prior two versions, but a boost is definitely magic with these amps.
 

·
I am Groot
Joined
·
32,450 Posts
Wirelessly posted :)dio:)

Yeah, I just put them on the list of amps that you boost, like every good Marshall.
 

·
The Singlecut King of Northern VA
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
Yeah, V3 might be low gain. Standard for most of us is TungSol in V1, whatever in V2 (I have a JJ but it literally seems to make no difference as long as it's high gain), then Chinese (I have GT12AX7-Cs, which are the same as these:

Penta 12AX7 - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes
), but no Russian tubes in the cathode follower spots (V3 and V4) as they tend to fail.

V5 (phase splitter/output) should be balanced, but otherwise doesn't make a difference. I have a JJ here, too.
That Balanced for phase is a carry over from HI-FI fidelity tube amps and tube companies just ride the wave to make more money. I have used balanced and regular and I have never really been able to tell the difference. Here is a good explaination on why having a balanced phase is not needed.


For one, the impedance that the output tubes sees is completely different on the plate and the cathode.
Even with perfectly matched gain, parts tolerances and the impedance difference makes it drive differently on each phase. The driver circuit itself on a lot of amps isn't even balanced.

For that matter, maybe there is something to be said for a little asymmetry?
Guitar amplifiers don't necessarily need to be Hi-Fi.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,968 Posts
but no Russian tubes in the cathode follower spots (V3 and V4) as they tend to fail.
Have to emphasize this. You'd think it wouldn't make a difference, but on the Stiletto I had, this caused the spongy mode on the high gain channel to be approximately 1/10 the normal volume.
 

·
I am Groot
Joined
·
32,450 Posts
Wirelessly posted :)dio:)

You won't be Putin that commie tube in my amp! :usa:
 

·
The Singlecut King of Northern VA
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
Wirelessly posted :)dio:)

If you're new to Rectos, then they seem to make no gain without a boost. It's a perception thing, since the bass bloom just swallows everything, which is what the boost solves. If it still sounds weak with one, then Mike is probably right about V3.

I disagree with Todd, since Rectos most certainly do not need high gain tubes. I'd rather use a better sounding tube and turn the gain up another half a notch.
I do not really find them that much better to justify the cost and not to mention the fact that they seem to go bad alot more then other tubes.

I'm pretty sure Mike is correct though that the output stage should be balanced.
That is all over the internet because tube companies been selling you that crap for years so people keep reposting. It is really not a big deal though and you can go either way and at a 3 dollar difference for the tube does not really make that much difference, I am just saying that you do not need it but if it helps you sleep better at night then go ahead and get it.
 

·
Sir Groove-A-Lot
Charvel So Cal & San Dimas
Joined
·
6,916 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Wirelessly posted :)dio:)

If you're new to Rectos, then they seem to make no gain without a boost. It's a perception thing, since the bass bloom just swallows everything, which is what the boost solves. If it still sounds weak with one, then Mike is probably right about V3.

I disagree with Todd, since Rectos most certainly do not need high gain tubes. I'd rather use a better sounding tube and turn the gain up another half a notch.
No I knew going in that they are a very raw and dry type of distortion, this is the second recto I've owned but the first one I've used in a live situation (wasn't in a band during the time I owned the previous one, just used for recording) and have played through a couple of others. So I'm familiar with the whole vibe for sure, and have never had to have the gain so high on the others to reach a satisfactory level. Even with a boost it needs to be around 1:30-2 o'clock. I know that's not exactly drastic, but to my memory that's considerably more than, say, Ryan's Triple, which gets more than enough gain @ 1 o'clock even without a boost.

EDIT: Also been chatting to the previous owner, and he never touched the preamp valves, they're all stock.
 

·
The Singlecut King of Northern VA
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
No I knew going in that they are a very raw and dry type of distortion, this is the second recto I've owned but the first one I've used in a live situation (wasn't in a band during the time I owned the previous one, just used for recording) and have played through a couple of others. So I'm familiar with the whole vibe for sure, and have never had to have the gain so high on the others to reach a satisfactory level. Even with a boost it needs to be around 1:30-2 o'clock. I know that's not exactly drastic, but to my memory that's considerably more than, say, Ryan's Triple, which gets more than enough gain @ 1 o'clock even without a boost.

EDIT: Also been chatting to the previous owner, and he never touched the preamp valves, they're all stock.
All preamp tubes have different gain levels, so Ryans preamp tubes may have more gain then other tubes you have had... Or it could be a higher value component somewhere in the circuit and could be one of those amps that just act a little different then the norm.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
3 Posts
Tung Sol in V1. The rest are to taste, no Russians in V3 and V4.

That said, if you can get a NOS Mullard, they're great in V1.
 

·
The Singlecut King of Northern VA
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
FYI- Here is a good read on the phase inverter by John R. Frondelli is the Technical Services Director at DBM Pro Audio In New York. He has been a technician for 30 years and has repaired, restored and custom built all types of musical equipment. Part of his client list includes Bob Dylan, Lenny Kravitz, U2 and The Who.

Phase Inverter - What it Does and How it Works | 300guitars.com
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,451 Posts
Interesting. I've never paid more than an extra buck for a balanced tube, so I didn't really care, but that does make sense.
 

·
Sir Groove-A-Lot
Charvel So Cal & San Dimas
Joined
·
6,916 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
All preamp tubes have different gain levels, so Ryans preamp tubes may have more gain then other tubes you have had... Or it could be a higher value component somewhere in the circuit and could be one of those amps that just act a little different then the norm.
That was just an example, mine tends to be lower in gain than all the rectifiers I've played. But, what you said still stands to that, I guess. It's not even an issue, honestly, there's plenty of gain on the dial, I just reach it at a later stage, I just wondered if there was anything 'wrong' with that, given my limited experience with rectos.

I'm still interested to see what everyone else uses in theirs for reference though, as I'm willing to experiment. I love the shit out of this amp, but if there's a way to improve it, even marginally, then cool.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,451 Posts
That was just an example, mine tends to be lower in gain than all the rectifiers I've played. But, what you said still stands to that, I guess. It's not even an issue, honestly, there's plenty of gain on the dial, I just reach it at a later stage, I just wondered if there was anything 'wrong' with that, given my limited experience with rectos.
This *could* actually be one of the cathode follower tubes failing. When my Russian tube in V3 went bad, it started as having lower gain.
 

·
I am Groot
Joined
·
32,450 Posts
Preamp tubes are cheap, so if you're not the amp's original owner, it doesn't hurt to fully re-tube it. Literally anything could be in there.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top