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Is Actually Recording
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, couple threads about mic positioning and speaker choice and whatnot, coupled with the realization that my general preference for dark, smooth sounds was leaving me with a guitar sound that any normal, sane person would call way too lacking in detail and was actually causing problems with mix balance, had me spending the last day or two making millimeter by milimeter adjustments on my mic/cab setup and slowly going insane, but I THINK this is a bit better.

I was A/Bing against the intro to Andy Timmons' "Deliver Us" with the unaccompanied guitar sound, less to try to copy it exactly than to try to have a reference point for the overall balance of what's really a pretty killer lead guitar sound, and I think this is in the right ballpark. A bit more focused in the upper mids than has and with a bit less low end, I think, but that's partly by design, and I had a tiny bit of EQ on input I could bypass to get a little closer, I think (a nit of high end rolled off above 8k, very slight boost at 1.5k, and high pass at 80hz).

SM57 and a MD421 against the cab of my Tremoverb 4x12, I ended up trying all four speakers but went back to the one I've been using all along as honestly none of them really seemed any better to me, with the SM57 positioned on the grill and, if you drew an imaginary line from the mic to the cone, such that the inside edge of the 57 would be JUST touching the edge of the dust cap. MD421 positioned with the age old trick of throwing it out of phase and moving it around to make it sound as shitty as possible, and then flipping it back in phase.

Pretty minimal EQ on the guitars in the mix, with the MD421 probably a little behind the SM57, and then otherwise just a really quick and dirty Superior 3 drum mix and the bass run direct through one of my BAE preamps, run hard, with some EQ and compression in the mix.


EDIT - flash player isn't working for me, so direct link:
https://drewpeterson7.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/timmons_clip.mp3

I haven't even listened to this on another set of speakers, so the mix is probably all over the place, but is the guitar sound at least in the "good enough for a home studio record" zone? Performance is a little iffy, I basically figured out the tune while doing this. Sorry! :lol:
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
...was "shoddy Andy Timmons cover" not appealing enough? :lol:

If it helps any, here's the same mic alignment/positioning/guitar amp settings in a rough mix of a song I was demoing out when I started to revamp my mic position, just about 20 seconds as it goes into the chorus, to audition it in context a little better.

https://drewpeterson7.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/mic-position-clip.mp3
 

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sounds cool,very "in the room"- i am obviously not someone with experience or opinion on mixing this type of sound but how on axis is the mic? I felt the lead had a bit of a treble spike on the picked notes where you have emphasised the pick attack, maybe its just the amp settings but i think it would sound a lot smoother without that rolled back a bit
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
SM57 directly on axis, MD421 also directly on axis. I think a lot of that is a combination of a fairly bright, open, and percussive attack from the gutiar/pickup, and not THAT much gain, maybe 1-1:30 or so on my Mark V. Post this clip I through some light compression on this, and I think that did thicken it up a little.

Then again, I'm a strat guy at heart so I like a clear attack. :lol:
 

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yeah its maybe a personal preference thing and i know its essentially there on purppose as that hard attack on the top end is actually quite musical. I just found it a bit peircing, the fact it is a MKV does not surprise me :lol:
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
yeah its maybe a personal preference thing and i know its essentially there on purppose as that hard attack on the top end is actually quite musical. I just found it a bit peircing, the fact it is a MKV does not surprise me :lol:
:lol: Not a fan of that amp? If you want, I could throw some compression on this and knock the treble back a hair in the mix and see if that sits better for you.
 

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The lead sound is missing some body. It's not that it's necessarily too bright, it's that the low mids are lacking.
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Huh. Any experience with these?

The lead sound is missing some body. It's not that it's necessarily too bright, it's that the low mids are lacking.
Well, your ears are about as experienced as anyones' here - nudge the mics a hair further away from the dust cap, or is this something better addressed with amp settings/EQ in the mix? This is pretty minimally processed once it hits disk.
 

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:lol: Not a fan of that amp? If you want, I could throw some compression on this and knock the treble back a hair in the mix and see if that sits better for you.
I used to own one, had it since 2012 and got rid of it earlier this year. Much prefer the dual rec multiwatt and the diezels and engl that replaced it. In fairness i did think it was a great amp for high gain solos but it wasnt suited for really heavy rhythm or washy chordy (black metal) stuff that i play at all. Even with the mids literally at zero on the knob and close to zero on the fader i still found it honky and peircing. I also found it pretty narrow sounding if that makes sense. Definetly a great amp but not tonally something i enjoyed and i really only realised that once i started recording it myself. Actually sounded good enough with a band. Very good cut as would be expected from an amp with the above qualities.

I recon to compress it and get rid of that you'd maybe kill the vibe as youd need to hit it with a fast attack to smooth out the pick attack no?
 

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The lead sound is missing some body. It's not that it's necessarily too bright, it's that the low mids are lacking.
Actually yeah this may solve what i'm hearing. I usually pump the bass in lead sounds so i can remove it if required but it would maybe fill this out and stop all the emphasis being on the highs (for me at least)
 

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I dig it, but I'm pretty easy-going when it comes to mixes. It's well between shrill and muffled, and is pretty pleasing to my ear, so I say leave the mic where it is, hit record, and capture some magic :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I dig it, but I'm pretty easy-going when it comes to mixes. It's well between shrill and muffled, and is pretty pleasing to my ear, so I say leave the mic where it is, hit record, and capture some magic :)
...that involves having some magic to capture, and I'm still working on that!
 

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I hate 57s for lead tones. Period. Honestly, you'd probably get better results from just the 421 positioned closer to center.

Given the tones you like, I'm kind of surprised you haven't acquired a Royer 121 or Beyer 160 by now.
 

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Huh. Any experience with these?

Well, your ears are about as experienced as anyones' here - nudge the mics a hair further away from the dust cap, or is this something better addressed with amp settings/EQ in the mix? This is pretty minimally processed once it hits disk.
Just to throw this out there, I think the tone you recorded is great. You can work with this with EQ and compression in a mix to get it to fit where you need. I instantly knew this was a Mark amp, and I instantly knew it was you, so there's that :yesway:
 

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Huh. Any experience with these?

The lead sound is missing some body. It's not that it's necessarily too bright, it's that the low mids are lacking.
Well, your ears are about as experienced as anyones' here - nudge the mics a hair further away from the dust cap, or is this something better addressed with amp settings/EQ in the mix? This is pretty minimally processed once it hits disk.
I have two dynamounts, they're awesome. I'd move the mic a little farther away from the cap, I much prefer to record it right than to fox it in the mix.
 

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Given the tones you like, I'm kind of surprised you haven't acquired a Royer 121 or Beyer 160 by now.
Ribbons are great. I have a Cascade Fat Head II that I adore for my sound. Its got a natural roll off at about 8k so I toss it directly center on the speaker, roll the bass off as needed in the daw and thats it. the rest is done on the amp and the recorded sound is very true to what I hear in the room.

https://www.cascademicrophones.com/ribbon-microphone-fat-head-ii

They used to have a scratch and dent section where you could get a decent discount on a mic that was scratched or had some other cosmetic issue. You might have to shoot them an email to see if they still offer that.
 

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ya boi
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Ribbons are great. I have a Cascade Fat Head II that I adore for my sound. Its got a natural roll off at about 8k so I toss it directly center on the speaker, roll the bass off as needed in the daw and thats it. the rest is done on the amp and the recorded sound is very true to what I hear in the room.

https://www.cascademicrophones.com/ribbon-microphone-fat-head-ii

They used to have a scratch and dent section where you could get a decent discount on a mic that was scratched or had some other cosmetic issue. You might have to shoot them an email to see if they still offer that.
Thanks for reminding me of the Fathead. I really liked them back when I was taking recording class and I should get a pair for the studio.
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I hate 57s for lead tones. Period. Honestly, you'd probably get better results from just the 421 positioned closer to center.

Given the tones you like, I'm kind of surprised you haven't acquired a Royer 121 or Beyer 160 by now.
I THOUGHT I hated the SM57 for the longest time, too, but over time I've really grown to love how it sits in a mix, though it really benefits from having a second mic (even just another 57) to round it out a bit. Also, it's kind of shocking to me what just a touch of high end rolloff from one of the Neve 551s can do to a SM57 - it's good enough that often times I can just use it alone while demoing.

That said, I do have a sE VR1 ribbon though I haven't used it much yet - it's a lot darker than either the SM57 OR the MD421 (which is WAY too bright, and kind of scooped, to use on its own, IMO, but compliments a 57 well), by a long shot, but I think it has potential to support a 57 well for rhythm playing with a brighter, crunchier tone (it first came on my radar thanks to some of the rhythm clips Mattayus posted with one).

It's not that I don't want a Royer... but $1300 for a mic is kind of a lot, especially when it's one as delicate as a ribbon. :lol:

This thread has been super helpful - thanks everyone! I'll tweak my mic position a touch and see if I can get a little more low end back into this, without giving up too much clarity in the high end.
 
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