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That's my point. Those same people harp on comparing performance figures, pretending like the OS is unimportant. For many people, though, Mac OS X is *the* selling point. Especially people who want a basic UNIX-based OS on their laptop, are tired of tweaking their distro so it behaves like a laptop should, and are willing to pay a price premium for the convenience.
PC fanboys have been pretending the OS doesn't matter for years, as if Windows is the same as OS X. For many people, it is not. Yes, Windows 7 is good. No, it's not the same as OS X.

Linux fanboys have even less ground to stand on from a desktop/laptop standpoint, because it just is not as easy to use as OS X or Windows. It. Just. Isn't.
 

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I don't like it.
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Wirelessly posted (iPhone : Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7C144 Safari/528.16)

This arguement is, to me, invalidated by the superior OS that comes with a Mac. My three year old iMac is still one of the fastest computers I've used/owned and it's not because of the hardware, it's because the software utilizes that hardware more effectively. And guess what? The Snow Leopard upgrade made it even faster. You should not have to buy a new computer/upgrade to install a new version of an OS, that is simply inefficient.
I built my PC over 4 years ago, the only thing I've done is go from 2gb ram to 4gb, and a new vid card because I got a steal of a deal on it, and I've run XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on it, no sweat.
 

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I built my PC over 4 years ago, the only thing I've done is go from 2gb ram to 4gb, and a new vid card because I got a steal of a deal on it, and I've run XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on it, no sweat.
It still doesn't run OS X without hacking it though, and that's an important factor for many people, myself included.
 

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Nerdington Willoughby
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Linux fanboys have even less ground to stand on from a desktop/laptop standpoint, because it just is not as easy to use as OS X or Windows. It. Just. Isn't.
Well, here you're making the same mistake as the Windows people who deride Windows. For Linux people it's not about ease of use. It's about configurability and freedom. As much as I love Linux, I eventually had to admit that it amounted to a hobby with how much time I spent configuring scripts, playing with the kernel, etc.

Windows = OS for people who want a working computer with high spec/price ratio.
Mac OS X = OS for people who want a streamlined experience with a polished OS.
Linux = OS for power users and hobbyists.

Edit2: I just flashed back to the time I spent many late nights reading driver code for the Creative Nomad MP3 player because I *so* wanted it to work properly with Linux. Wow.
 

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Mutes the Meat
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I built my PC over 4 years ago, the only thing I've done is go from 2gb ram to 4gb, and a new vid card because I got a steal of a deal on it, and I've run XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on it, no sweat.
My only questions to that would be, what are the specs and how smoothly does it run?

Why do these threads always end up like this anyways? :lol: Beating dead horses to pulp over opinions (even though I believe that Windows' suckage is fact :flame:).
 

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I don't like it.
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My only questions to that would be, what are the specs and how smoothly does it run?

Why do these threads always end up like this anyways? :lol: Beating dead horses to pulp over opinions (even though I believe that Windows' suckage is fact :flame:).
It's an AMD Opteron 170 dual core processor(Socket 939, 2.0ghz) with a 9800GTX+ vid card, 4gb of pc3200 in a dual channel config, and a smattering of hard drives, running vista x64, and it runs very smoothly, very fast. It's got to, I haven't felt the need for a significant upgrade in 4 years, and I used to upgrade every couple of months :rofl:
 

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Well, here you're making the same mistake as the Windows people who deride Windows. For Linux people it's not about ease of use. It's about configurability and freedom. As much as I love Linux, I eventually had to admit that it amounted to a hobby with how much time I spent configuring scripts, playing with the kernel, etc.

Windows = OS for people who want a working computer with high spec/price ratio.
Mac OS X = OS for people who want a streamlined experience with a polished OS.
Linux = OS for power users and hobbyists.

Edit2: I just flashed back to the time I spent many late nights reading driver code for the Creative Nomad MP3 player because I *so* wanted it to work properly with Linux. Wow.
I'm not making any mistake. ;) In my opinion a desktop or laptop OS should be easy to use, so the machine doesn't get in the way of the user. While the configuration ability of Linux is terrific for servers, it's a hindrance to the desktop.

And I'd argue that it's a "power user's" OS; it seems even the most power user-centric apps like engineering stuff is headed towards Windows now more so than it is with Linux. But hey, that's another discussion I guess.
 

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Nerdington Willoughby
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I'm not making any mistake. ;) In my opinion a desktop or laptop OS should be easy to use, so the machine doesn't get in the way of the user. While the configuration ability of Linux is terrific for servers, it's a hindrance to the desktop.

And I'd argue that it's a "power user's" OS; it seems even the most power user-centric apps like engineering stuff is headed towards Windows now more so than it is with Linux. But hey, that's another discussion I guess.
Right, that's your opinion. Some others have the opinion that their laptop should offer them an opportunity to, for example, develop ACPI software, hardware drivers, etc. It's the difference between the computer being a tool, and it being a project.

And for your second point, the HPC world is still dominated by Linux.

In any case, my apologies to Leon for helping derail his thread. The OS discussion can go on forever, but at the end of the day what is said here is probably not going to influence anyone either way. It's just like a Les Paul vs. Strat discussion, for chrissakes!
 

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Right, that's your opinion. Some others have the opinion that their laptop should offer them an opportunity to, for example, develop ACPI software, hardware drivers, etc. It's the difference between the computer being a tool, and it being a project.

And for your second point, the HPC world is still dominated by Linux.

In any case, my apologies to Leon for helping derail his thread. The OS discussion can go on forever, but at the end of the day what is said here is probably not going to influence anyone either way. It's just like a Les Paul vs. Strat discussion, for chrissakes!
Don't get me wrong, I really dig a lot of things about Linux, I've just gotten rather frustrated with some of the things they haven't been able to get working properly after all these years, and I've found that OS X addresses everything that's missing from Linux along with providing most of what I enjoy about Linux.

So I generally say Linux in the back room, OS X on the desk or in the bag.

As for derailing the thread; I agree, it's depressing that this happens, and I guess I contributed to that yet again.

I just get tired of the inevitable clown comment about the cost, which is really a mystery to no one with a set of eyeballs and a brain.

It doesn't need mentioning, it's irrelevant to someone asking advice about Macs, and it just disrupts the thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
You guys get so fired up about that stuff :wub:
 

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Mr. Negative Pants, ,
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I just get tired of the inevitable clown comment about the cost, which is really a mystery to no one with a set of eyeballs and a brain.

It doesn't need mentioning, it's irrelevant to someone asking advice about Macs, and it just disrupts the thread.
:agreed:
 

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Mr. Negative Pants, ,
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They're a good deal, just make sure you get the extended warranty. They're machines that more than likely arrived DOA and have had major components replaced (like the logic board).
 

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Nerdington Willoughby
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So, assuming I wanted an apple, are the reburbs a good deal?
Definitely. Just compare the prices.

And in terms of reliability, while I haven't bought a refurbished Mac, I've bought several refurbished iPods and I'll be damned if they haven't lasted longer than friend's non-refurb iPods. I still have a 1st gen Shuffle that works just fine despite all the sweat I've doused it in, and whose battery holds a nearly full charge.
 

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Definitely. Just compare the prices.

And in terms of reliability, while I haven't bought a refurbished Mac, I've bought several refurbished iPods and I'll be damned if they haven't lasted longer than friend's non-refurb iPods. I still have a 1st gen Shuffle that works just fine despite all the sweat I've doused it in, and whose battery holds a nearly full charge.
They're fine. I've recommended them multiple times, and everyone's always been happy.
 
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