Roasted Maple

5372 Views 33 Replies 10 Participants Last post by eleven59, Nov 16, 2010

Soopahmahn

Discussion Starter · Nov 15, 2010

Other than sounding really delicious, like some kind of candy that nobody ever told you about, apparently EBMM and Sadowski are offering "roasted maple" necks on some guitars these days.

http://www.ernieball.com/email/roasted_maple/index.html

First, I want to know where the hell they're getting the lumber. I suspect the same source for both builders, and I wonder if little custom shops can get theirs hands on it.

Second, wonder if anyone thinks this is bullshit. I'm vaguely familiar with the microstructure of wood

miniwang

but I don't know if oxidizing all the internal sugars, etc., would really result in the properties they're claiming.

I consider this to be analogous to sintering ceramics, where you basically bake out voids and moisture from a green ceramic product to increase mechanical properties and density.

Also, why does EBMM not offer the wood on Floyd Rose-equipped guitars? Is the wood too brittle to handle the locking nut, perhaps resulting in cracking over time with whammy abuse? If so, why aren't the tuners affected, or are they to a lesser degree?

Either way, I must admit it's pretty.

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darren

· #2 · Nov 15, 2010

Anderson and Suhr are offering it as well (they call it "chocolate maple" and "vulcanized maple", respectively). I've also got a multi-lam neck in roasted maple that will be used in an upcoming build. It ranges from sort of a honey tint to super-dark like rosewood.

Supposedly, the cooking process solidifies the cellular structure of the wood, making it almost completely impervious to moisture.

Soopahmahn

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 15, 2010

Ah, yes.

Vulcanization implies the cross-linking of polymer chains through the structure, so that might translate to the network of sugars sort of bonding and shrinking, tightening the wood with them and sealing the moisture out.

Suhr's "vulcanized" maple is very dark - perhaps that's just a matter of finishing. I actually thought they were impregnating it with rubber based on it looking almost like rosewood.

Also - would love to learn where you got it - maybe a PM if it's super duper secret for cereal?

darren

· #4 · Nov 15, 2010

I think the darkness is just a factor of how long they cook it for. I don't think Suhr is impregnating it with rubber ("Vulcanized" is a poor description).

I got mine at a local wood supplier. Home - Exotic-Woods

roasted maple | Decibel Guitars

Soopahmahn

Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 15, 2010

darren said:
roasted maple | Decibel Guitars

:yum:

Thomas

· #6 · Nov 15, 2010

Suhr has retired vulcanized maple in favor of roasted maple, which undergoes the same process (baking in an oxygen-free oven) except to a lesser extent.

Soopahmahn

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 15, 2010

They must raise the temperature pretty high - they're roasting it in the vacuum so that the wood won't catch fire due to lack of oxygen. Nifty.

darren

· #8 · Nov 15, 2010

Yep. From what i've read, the process involves the wood being put in an autoclave at 180°C to 230°C for 24 to 48 hours, depending on the species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_preservation#Heat_treatments

F1Filter

· #9 · Nov 15, 2010

Thomas said:
Suhr has retired vulcanized maple in favor of roasted maple, which undergoes the same process (baking in an oxygen-free oven) except to a lesser extent.

:idea: I now haz a collectors item!!!

Too bad they did away with the vulcanized neck. It's easily one of the nicest feeling finishes I've ever felt.

Soopahmahn

Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 15, 2010

According to Wiki, the wood is more prone to splitting. Interesting.

darren

· #11 · Nov 15, 2010

Yeah, i think the fact that the wood ends up being SUPER dry means that it can be a bit more brittle. Not surprising, really. It just means that builders need to be extra-careful about drilling proper pilot holes for everything.

Seanbabs

· #12 · Nov 15, 2010

Soopahmahn said:
They must raise the temperature pretty high - they're roasting it in the vacuum so that the wood won't catch fire due to lack of oxygen. Nifty.

I doubt it is in a vacuum. The off-gassing of carbon species at high temperatures would make it extremely hard to maintain a proper vacuum. :nuts:

I would guess that they use an inert gas furnace, utilizing either nitrogen or argon environments to maintain a non-oxidizing environment during the firing process. :yesway:

:fawk:

EDIT: That wood grain looks fabulous roasted

Leon

· #13 · Nov 15, 2010

darren said:
Yeah, i think the fact that the wood ends up being SUPER dry means that it can be a bit more brittle. Not surprising, really. It just means that builders need to be extra-careful about drilling proper pilot holes for everything.

Chemical Engineering Fail. They could absolutely replace the lost moisture with an oil (that can survive the high temps in the oven).

7deadlysins

· #14 · Nov 15, 2010

Leon said:
Chemical Engineering Fail. They could absolutely replace the lost moisture with an oil (that can survive the high temps in the oven).

Maybe thats something to suggest to them? Maybe something they're not aware of. I'd be down with a neck like that. :yesway:

sami

· #15 · Nov 15, 2010

I must say, the neck in that pic looks friggin killer! Although the headstock looks a little too overcooked.

Leon

· #16 · Nov 15, 2010

Oh yeah, I'll get right on it :lol:

Soopahmahn

Discussion Starter · #17 · Nov 15, 2010

Seanbabs said:
I doubt it is in a vacuum. The off-gassing of carbon species at high temperatures would make it extremely hard to maintain a proper vacuum. :nuts:

I would guess that they use an inert gas furnace, utilizing either nitrogen or argon environments to maintain a non-oxidizing environment during the firing process. :yesway:

Inert atmosphere would work, but it's pointless when you can just suck the air out. Either way the carbon will outgas, and you want to get that shit out of the furnace. Ergo, according to Wiki (don't know who wrote that section, not cited), they pull a vacuum on the chamber. You're right that they won't be able to maintain a perfect vacuum, but they can start with a low pressure atmosphere and continue to draw out the moisture and gasses as they evolve. No fire will start.

Leon said:
Chemical Engineering Fail. They could absolutely replace the lost moisture with an oil (that can survive the high temps in the oven).

How? I think the sugars oxidize and fill up the porosity of the wood. The point is that the wood is no longer as flexible, so if you could get oil back into it, I don't think you'd have achieved your objective.

Leon

· #18 · Nov 15, 2010

How would the sugars oxidize in an environment devoid of oxygen? :wub:

Soopahmahn

Discussion Starter · #19 · Nov 15, 2010

Leon said:
How would the sugars oxidize in an environment devoid of oxygen? :wub:

Because they're in the wood, which is full of water and oxygen.

Leon

· #20 · Nov 15, 2010

:squint: I suppose... :lol:

I understand that they're making the neck more rigid, but as Darren pointed out, it's also going to be more brittle. I think the cure is worse than the problem, IMO.

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