[Zero]

I think I now know far too much about mesa stuff. He went into detail about their newer models, the Transatlantic, Electradyne, MK V, and the 2010 rectos. If anyone wants me to type up all that I learned, I can.


suffice it to say, after letting him dial in a 2010 Triple Recto... I might be sold.

 

[105]

Details, please.

 

[Zero]

Aside from the Cosmetic differences (Cage around the tubes instead of the crossbar, and the ability to have the shell have the Road King style, Mk V style, etc), the new rectos now have a mute button on the footswitch, and are switchable 50/100 per channel (like the stilettos) as well as Tube Tracking/Diode recto per channel.

The coolest new thing about them (That also carries to the Electra-dyne) is that all the pots are stacked, for the most part, such that flipping channel 3 on the Dual Recto from Vintage to Modern actually changes the total value of all the pots, so that the sound follows the switch, as opposed to having to re-dial the amp after making the switch. for example on Brian's triple recto ('05 model), switching from Vintage to Modern on his C3 gives a HUGE boost in volume because it's a different circuit using the same value pots. now, flipping that switch changes the values of all 6 knobs on the front to some degree, ensuring that the only thing that really changes is the voicing. I found it hard to believe until he showed me. The electradyne has the same system, with a shared EQ across all 3 channels (it seems like a 2-channel amp with 2 gain stages on the "gain" channel, but thanks to the stacked pots, they're still all tied to one knob), but for example the midrange knob for the high-gain setting has a much higher value than the same knob on the low-gain setting, so it's actually a totally different amount of midrange, that's designed to more accentuate the particular strengths of the voicing.

Apparantly, for the MK V, Mesa went out and bought back a large amount of mk IV, IIC, IIC+, etc, and copied the circuit to the T. The only reason the V doesn't sound like the IIC+ is that the original IIC+s had a particular set of transformers that aren't made anymore (I forget the brand), but other than that the circuit is identical, down to the branding on the components.

to paraphrase: "We played all these amps and took them apart, and found that the ones with real magic either had the graphic EQ or didn't, or had the verb or didn't (keeping in mind both those features require a pretty substantial change in the amp circuitry) had a brand A capacitor in spot 1, and the ones that didn't had Brand B or C, and this was done for every component that there was deviation on, so we essentially re-made the best iteration of all the Mark circuits we could build."

There's plenty more, but I've got an amp to fix for a customer. Stay tuned!

 

[Mike]

Wow. The mode/pot switching is pretty cool.

 

[Zero]

yeah, he said he was a sales guy, not a tech, so he didn't know how they worked, but I figure it uses a set of relays to accomplish that. The only thing the Rectos lack now is the ability to use a midi switcher to replace the footswitch without using a snake-like cable with 5+ leads in it. I suppose it would be nice to have an effects loop input on the footswitch like the madison stuff does, but that's not a huge selling point. I could always just wire one of those in.

 

[Mike]

Interesting that they seem to have made channel 1 the default, instead of 2 like the old ones (looking at the channel switching jacks on the back panel).

 

[noodles]

The coolest new thing about them (That also carries to the Electra-dyne) is that all the pots are stacked, for the most part, such that flipping channel 3 on the Dual Recto from Vintage to Modern actually changes the total value of all the pots, so that the sound follows the switch, as opposed to having to re-dial the amp after making the switch. for example on Brian's triple recto ('05 model), switching from Vintage to Modern on his C3 gives a HUGE boost in volume because it's a different circuit using the same value pots. now, flipping that switch changes the values of all 6 knobs on the front to some degree, ensuring that the only thing that really changes is the voicing. I found it hard to believe until he showed me.

Wow, they just made a Recto ten times easier for a noob to dial in. The biggest learning curve in the amps has always been the huge range of an eq stack designed to cover three modes. Of course, I am now going to have to relearn the amps. :lol:

The only reason the V doesn't sound like the IIC+ is that the original IIC+s had a particular set of transformers that aren't made anymore (I forget the brand), but other than that the circuit is identical, down to the branding on the components.

Dual Rec #5 has that same transformer, and it is definitely magical. It is also known to burn out, sometimes taking half the circuit board with it, which is why Mesa stopped using them.

 

[Josh]

Dual Rec #5 has that same transformer, and it is definitely magical. It is also known to burn out, sometimes taking half the circuit board with it, which is why Mesa stopped using them.

That is rather magical. Suddenly your amp disappears!

 

[darren]

I wonder if they'll start doing the stacked pots across the board, and if they're considering making some of the modes footswitchable. It may not be much benefit on a 3-channel amp like a Recto, but on something like the Express series, on-the-fly switchable modes would give them a HUGE boost in flexibility.

 

[Silverwulf]

Dual Rec #5 has that same transformer, and it is definitely magical. It is also known to burn out, sometimes taking half the circuit board with it, which is why Mesa stopped using them.

Sorta. The older Rectos (Revision C - F) had a 561136 PT and 562100 OT in them. When they stopped making Revision F in late '92, they changed transformers. The first 2700 - 2900 Rectos had those transformers in them. The IIC+ never had the 561136 PT's, but the last round of factory 100/60W IIC+ and later Simul to 100/60 IIC+ upgrades had the 562100 installed in them. The 562100 OT was also used in the 100/60W Mark III's.

However, the 562100 OT is pretty much the same as the original IIC+ 100/60 OT (don't remember the code off the top my head), it's essentially the exact same transformer but just a different part number. So though they had slightly different part numbers, the 100/60W IIC+, 100/60W Mark III, and the first 2700 - 2900 Rectos all used the same OT.

The "magical" transformer they're referring to is probably the 105 PT that some IIC+'s had. It probably had more headroom and balls than any transformer Mesa has ever used. Not for the timid, but perfect for metal.

You're spot on about the 562100 OT, though. They've been known to take out a few circuit boards from meltdowns before.

 

[noodles]

The "magical" transformer they're referring to is probably the 105 PT that some IIC+'s had. It probably had more headroom and balls than any transformer Mesa has ever used. Not for the timid, but perfect for metal.

Is that the one the replaced the IIc's detonating transformer? I know all the Cali guys (including Metallica) had to get tranny replacements, and usually got the "+" upgrade at the same time.

 

[Silverwulf]

Is that the one the replaced the IIc's detonating transformer? I know all the Cali guys (including Metallica) had to get tranny replacements, and usually got the "+" upgrade at the same time.

No, the 105's ran their course, never had any issues. They were mostly on IIC+'s, though some very early Mark III's (mostly no stripe/black dot and some blue stripes I've seen) got the stock left over.

The transformers that melted down were the 562100 and their older IIC+ equivalent (don't remember the part number off top my head), though they're the same transformer essentially with a different part number. James Hetfield blew out the transformer on his "Crunch Berries" IIC+ and had to have it replaced before the Black Album.

 

[Stitch]

Sorta. The older Rectos (Revision C - F) had a 561136 PT and 562100 OT in them. When they stopped making Revision F in late '92, they changed transformers. The first 2700 - 2900 Rectos had those transformers in them. The IIC+ never had the 561136 PT's, but the last round of factory 100/60W IIC+ and later Simul to 100/60 IIC+ upgrades had the 562100 installed in them. The 562100 OT was also used in the 100/60W Mark III's.

However, the 562100 OT is pretty much the same as the original IIC+ 100/60 OT (don't remember the code off the top my head), it's essentially the exact same transformer but just a different part number. So though they had slightly different part numbers, the 100/60W IIC+, 100/60W Mark III, and the first 2700 - 2900 Rectos all used the same OT.

The "magical" transformer they're referring to is probably the 105 PT that some IIC+'s had. It probably had more headroom and balls than any transformer Mesa has ever used. Not for the timid, but perfect for metal.

You're spot on about the 562100 OT, though. They've been known to take out a few circuit boards from meltdowns before.

All those numbers and codes in your head must have replaced something important. One day, you'll be asked how to love, and you won't know how. I'm so sorry man.

 

[Silverwulf]

All those numbers and codes in your head must have replaced something important. One day, you'll be asked how to love, and you won't know how. I'm so sorry man.

Haha, maybe so. I may not be up to speed on the modern Recto series, but the 2 Channel Rectos I know more about than I care to admit...

 

[MFB]

No, the 105's ran their course, never had any issues. They were mostly on IIC+'s, though some very early Mark III's (mostly no stripe/black dot and some blue stripes I've seen) got the stock left over.

The transformers that melted down were the 562100 and their older IIC+ equivalent (don't remember the part number off top my head), though they're the same transformer essentially with a different part number. James Hetfield blew out the transformer on his "Crunch Berries" IIC+ and had to have it replaced before the Black Album.

So wait, my Blue Stripe may possibly blow it's transformer at some point? :ugh:

 

[budda]

The roadsters won't see the stacked pots for no volume jump between modes then?

All of a sudden I want a 2010 triple lol

 

[Silverwulf]

So wait, my Blue Stripe may possibly blow it's transformer at some point? :ugh:

Well, any amp could blow a transformer at one point. It's not that that it's more prone to blow than any other transformer. It's the danger it potentially poses if it ever does blow. You have nothing to worry about.

 

[Zero]

Nope, the Roadsters and Road Kings weren't changed at all for 2010.

However, considering how awesome the new feature sets on the Rectos are, I can't see mesa NOT upgrading them.

 

[Leon]

Well, any amp could blow a transformer at one point. It's not that that it's more prone to blow than any other transformer. It's the danger it potentially poses if it ever does blow. You have nothing to worry about.

^ = PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

:wub:

 

[budda]

Nope, the Roadsters and Road Kings weren't changed at all for 2010.

However, considering how awesome the new feature sets on the Rectos are, I can't see mesa NOT upgrading them.

You'd think it would make sense to address the volume/settings issue on all the rectifier line, not just the dual and triples. Ah well. When the upgrade the roadster, I'll just grab one of those! Used. :lol: