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Spoilers ahead of character. I don't know how to block it.

Mark Hamill fought and mentioned in several interviews how he tried to keep Luke the way he was from the Original films because what we got in this movie was not Luke Skywalker.
Agreed for the first 4/5ths of the film. It sure as hell was Luke Skywalker at the end though.
 

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Spoilers ahead of character. I don't know how to block it.

Mark Hamill fought and mentioned in several interviews how he tried to keep Luke the way he was from the Original films because what we got in this movie was not Luke Skywalker.
Literally, my favorite part. Incredible on Hamill's part.

Agreed for the first 4/5ths of the film. It sure as hell was Luke Skywalker at the end though.
 

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How do you guys enjoy anything lol
 

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Spoilers ahead of character. I don't know how to block it.

Mark Hamill fought and mentioned in several interviews how he tried to keep Luke the way he was from the Original films because what we got in this movie was not Luke Skywalker.
spoiler and /spoiler
 

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I haven’t seen it yet, but seeing as Lucas has 0 input on these movies and they’re actively ignoring his ideas, isn’t it common knowledge that these are just high budget fan fiction? I don’t give a shit about canon or anything. We’re talking about movies. Fun, fictional movies. Like them or don’t like them, your opinion is totally valid. I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this, but some people take this shit way too personal :lol:
 

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I haven't seen it yet, but seeing as Lucas has 0 input on these movies and they're actively ignoring his ideas, isn't it common knowledge that these are just high budget fan fiction? I don't give a shit about canon or anything. We're talking about movies. Fun, fictional movies. Like them or don't like them, your opinion is totally valid. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but some people take this shit way too personal :lol:
Fuck off, Aaron.

:D
 

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I actually agree with Aaron for once lol
 

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is on drug whatever
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I've been reading a few fan reviews online... holy shit lots of people hate this film :lol: I kind of think people forget that Star Wars films are just fun, campy space operas with dumb dialogue, some questionable acting and amazing special effects. Loads of vitriol for the jokey lines and dumb creatures as well, that shits all over the OT.
 

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LOL, I love how all the people who mindlessly fellated Rogue One and The Force Awakens are now hating this.

Force Awakens was cool, not as amazing as some people made it out to be. Rogue One was good, again not as amazing as some people made it out to be. This was better than both.

"More cheesy humor than a regular Star Wars"? Gimme a fucking break. Star Wars has always been movies for children. Yeah there was comic relief, but it was in line with literally every other Star Wars movie ever.

New AT-ATs sucked, scene with luke milking whatever the fuck that thing was was sheer WTF, Leia's space flight sucked. Other than that it ruled. I also wasn't crazy on the design of the new throne room guards, since the old ones and even the shadows of the empire ones were more badass. They should have revived one of those or used one of the old ones, these ones just looked like red members of DEVO.





There were some great canon shout outs in there for mega fans. They had a couple close ups of vibro-blades, vibro-shivs which I quite enjoyed.

Presumably most of you guys missed that because you were too busy weeping about how it "isn't a real star wars" because 4 of the 8 main characters are female, and the character that gets the most badass death is female.

Seriously, the only fans I've seen saying it's "not a real Star Wars" are all male. Rogue One and Force Awakens were OK because it was just one female lead each, and that's OK because it's throwing them a bone after several decades, but when it's clearly female dominated fanboys throw a fit.

Calling major bullshit on all the mega fans saying "This doesn't qualify as Star Wars". Have you ever seen a Star Wars movie or read/played/etc. any of the EU materials?

Now if you are saying the fucking batshit insane Ewoks cartoon from the '80s isn't Star Wars that's one thing. I personally love that cartoon for its sheer levels of WTF, but the amount of drugs the people involved must have been on was obviously astronomical. The theme song is still the most bizarrely terrifying thing ever.


The Casino planet was fine. It amazes me that most people seem to remember the originals as being gritty hard R films. Star Wars has always had zany stuff. There is some mature gritty stuff, the Mandalorian Armor novel trilogy and some of the Boba Fett comics are brutal as fuck, but none of the films released thus far have been gritty hard Rs. The Tales of the Jedi Old Republic Comics were hard R type stuff, but none of the movies have been as gritty as some of you seem to remember them as.
 

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I think the movie had a bunch of legitimate issues - the pacing was pretty iffy, a lot of the stuff in the middle of the film felt like filler, etc, that stupid Leia scene - but yeah I don't get the level of hate I'm seeing for it. The fundamental story is very Star Wars and actually goes in some very interesting directions. A lot of the complaints seem to be of the "aahhhh everyone knows that Force users do not gain that ability until they have reached level 6 and acquired the appropriate Feats" comic book guy variety. I spent years of my life obsessing over all the minutia of the star wars universe but like...that shit is dumb and not what makes a good story. :lol:

I mean the movie itself is definitely partially to blame because its problems get in the way of the things it does right, but I've felt for a while that "nerd" culture is way too fucking obsessed with these films patting them on the back for knowing all the universe's minutia instead to the detriment of actually telling compelling stories, and seeing how many of the complaints seem to boil down to "Rian Johnson personally insulted Star Wars fans by having Luke Skwyalker do THIS instead of THAT isn't really doing anything to convince me otherwise. :lol:
 

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^Everyone has known forever that the Force can pretty much do anything, the only reason people don't use it for flying is it looks really fucking stupid, which TLJ definitely confirmed.

Between the Movies and the EU it's not like there have ever been any firm baselines established on the rules of what the Force can and can't do.

That's literally one of the oldest Star Wars questions in the book, "Why don't people use The Force to fly? It can levitate other objects like X wings and shit."

"Because it looks really fucking stupid."

I swear to God, half of the Star Wars fans out there are complete idiots, did you seriously expect a huge and impressive backstory for a guy who's name sounds like it is derived from fucking SNORKEL?

You have characters called like, "Mandalore the Indomitable" and "Darth Sidious" and "Darth Bane" and then a guy with a name derived from fucking SNORKEL comes along and fans are like.

THIS GUY MUST BE THE BADDEST YET

Come on. You have games where people are like, giving badass monologues about riding BASILISK WAR DROIDS, and then a character with a name evocative of the shitty B-list underwater version of smurfs comes along and people think there is some great secret?

 

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Even "General Grievous" had a fucking badass sounding name. Literally every Star WArs villain worth a damn has to have a bad ass sounding name, the ancient Sith Lords have names like "NAGA SADOW" and shit like that.

If they had wanted you to take the character that seriously, they wouldn't have named him Supreme Leader Snork.
 

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Seriously, how any actual Star Wars fan could have expected badassery from a guy who's name is a call out to this world's greatest comedy tyrant and "snorkle" is mind blowing to me.

Like, if you know anything about Star Wars it's not hard to figure out the formula they use for bad guy names. Usually they are straight up callouts to a badass english word.

-Dude who's name literally translates to "Serpent Shadow"
-Darth Nihlius ("Nihilism")
-Darth Revan ("Revanant")
-Sheev Palpatine ("Palpable" evil, Sheev = Shiv), Darth Sidious ("insidious")
-Darth "Maul"
-Darth "Plague"-is
-Supreme Leader Snoke...

It should have been super clear he was a throwaway bad guy like the Trade Federation dudes in the prequels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
Just saw it and :

... but yeah I don't get the level of hate I'm seeing for it.
Exactly. I expected it would be really bad, but it's not. Ok, it's not a masterpiece and there's way too many bad jokes and filler (more than any other SW movie, I think), but it has its good moments. Saying The Phantom Menace is better is crazy talk, IMO.
 

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If they had wanted you to take the character that seriously, they wouldn't have named him Supreme Leader Snork.
Yes, I agree - Snoke is a dumb fucking name, and it annoyed the shit out of me when I saw TFA for the first time. But frankly spoken, a lot of TFA has been kind of "meh", but OVERALL it was still cool SW movie.
And besides - should we just accept any dumb named character in the SW universe as not a serious one that is soon to die? By that logic we're down veeeery fast to not even a handful of characters.

"More cheesy humor than a regular Star Wars"? Gimme a fucking break. Star Wars has always been movies for children. Yeah there was comic relief, but it was in line with literally every other Star Wars movie ever.
Oh come on, please, TLJ has more "funny" moments in the first 15 minutes already than A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back combined.
Also - please show me a "your mother" joke in any of the originals. That is a different kind of humor, yes, of course I understand that they want to appeal the "new" and "younger" audience, but that's not an excuse imho.

The Casino planet is not "bad" by it self. But it does not add anything worth to the story. They could have made this as a "one-off" episode in some animated series, that I am sure we will soong et (And which I will watch, because I still can't resist and have to see anyhting SW related, even "Rebels").

And I honestly could care less for the origin of Rey's parents or how Snorkel could reach Kylo in the first place, who the "Knights of Ren" are/were and what happened....but compared to what we got (read: everything that is not the Luke/Rey/Kylo story): ALL OF THIS could have brought more value to the movie than the wasted time with either Finn/Rose or Poe. I would not have wasted a second thought about rushing through Rey's process with the force with ridiculous speed if in exchange we would have received a real good story. But come one man...I seriously cannot think of anyone sitting in the cinema seeing this whole Casino-Race/RoseFinn thing and thinking "Wow, amazing, that is exactly what I wanted from the first movie featuring Luke Skywalker in fucking 30 years! It's like POD-racing reloaded, so awesome!". (I admit though that there was one cool detail on the arms dealer supplying to the first order as well as to the rebellion.)

I will go see it again still, because my girlfriends nephew gets tickets for Christmas and we're his "Star Wars buddies", and of course I STILL want to rewatch it because I really really WANT TO LOVE it.
 

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Ok, I'll admit I was a little nervous going in given the level of hate from some of you (Jeff in particular) I'd seen on facebook, but I thought it was great. I'll want to watch it a few more times before making any final opinions - and I STRONGLY suggest some of you guys who hated it do the same - but I really enjoyed watching it last night.

Couple (lengthy) thoughts, spoilers galore:
There were a few things that were "flaws" - Finn and Rose's mission to get the hacker, introducing Del Toro's character, only to have the whole plot to destroy the tracker fail and Del Toro to go off on a ship, being the biggest - but I'm not convinced they're necessarily fatal. Yes, they don't really move the main storyline forward, aside to give Poe hope for a while and get him into more hot water, but I think why it works is that it underscores how central a theme of this particular installment failure is. Yoda's speech on the value of failure as a teaching tool and how Luke has to teach Rey where he failed as well as where he suceeded, Luke trying and failing to instruct Kylo, Rey trying and failing to turn Kylo to the light, Kylo trying and failing to turn Rey to the dark... Even Luke's repeated line, "You just said three things to me. Every one of them was wrong." Contrasted with Poe's destruction of the dreadnaught at the start (costing him most of their fleet in the process), one of the big themes I took from the movie last night was that sometimes your failures are as important as your successes. And, in this episode, the Rebellion failed - as the movie closed, Luke was dead and the rebels were abandoning a heavily fortified bass, with their numbers decimated to the point that they could all escape in the Millennial Falcon... yet, they're still alive to fight another day. "Not fighting what you hate, saving what you love." Which is a pretty clear echo of the Emperor and the whole "embrace the dark side... let the hate flow..." thing. Idunno. I know the movie gave a faiir amount of screen time to a story that ended up being a false start, but I think it also underscores one of the major thematic swings of the movie in ways that work.

Beyond that, one of the things that I liked about the Force Awakens was that Kylo Ren was NOT a 2-dimensional bad guy character, but was still clearly conflicted with his choice to embrace the dark side in ways that we never saw in Vader until the very end. We saw more of that, both in Kylo when Rey almost managed to get through to him, and in Rey herself with the way she was drawn to the dark side so strongly, but also unexpectedly in Luke, where he very nearly killed Kylo, caught himself, and in doing so drove Kylo to the Dark side (another failure, underscored by Luke's further failure by going into hiding and abandoning the rebellion rather than staying to fight the Order). And for a series that very consciously riffs on recurring themes, I appreciated Kylo bringing Rey, who came voluntarily, to Snoke, echoing Vader bringing Luke, and Kylo being the one to kill Snoke by preying on his own hubris, and that the encounter being what pushed Kylo fully to the Dark side was an intersting echo of the encounter that caused Vader to abandon it.

I didn't mind the little bird things. Idunno. They barely got any screen time, I don't see the big deal. I also didn't find the humor intrusive either - it got a few chuckles out of me, too.

My two real regrets, one minor and one major:

1) We still don't know much about Snoke's back story. At all. That seemed like a missed opportunity.
2) The bigger one... I really wish they had written Carrie Fisher out in some elegant manner. When the command center was hit and we saw her floating, looking cryustalized, in space, I actually thought that was going to be it, and honestly it would have been kind of a beautiful way to end her character arc. I have no idea what the last movie will do - it was supposed to be Leia's movie as she leads the rebellion back, the directors have said they don't plan on CGIing her or recasting the role or anything, but at the same time the Rebellion is down to maybe one or two dozen people on the Falcon, and she's one of them. You can't just leave her out, have the Falcon land and her not be on it... I have no idea how that's gonna go, and I think maybe there could have been a way to address that in the story.

Idunno. I enjoyed watching it, and I think some of the "flaws" actually kind of make sense to me. I do want to watch it again, and I'll want to watch both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi back to back before making any relative assessments, but I thought it was a really good next installment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
^

About Lea...
Filming was completed when Carrie Fisher passed away. Since she was in all of the rebel scenes until the end, it would have been pretty difficult to just...
let her float in space and not have her "come back to life". At the same time, isn't it the very first time we see Lea use the force? While some may find her flying "cheesy" or whatever, it's still cool in some way to see her use her power.

Great review, Drew.
 
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