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Is Actually Recording
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^

About Lea...
Filming was completed when Carrie Fisher passed away. Since she was in all of the rebel scenes until the end, it would have been pretty difficult to just...
let her float in space and not have her "come back to life". At the same time, isn't it the very first time we see Lea use the force? While some may find her flying "cheesy" or whatever, it's still cool in some way to see her use her power.

Great review, Drew.
Yeah, I know. It's mostly wishful thinking. And yet, since they were able to CGI her into Rogue One at the very end, you almost wonder if they could have changed the ending somehow to.... Oh, idunno. There really is no obvious solution, it's just a problem that the director of the last installment has to solve now.

I think so, yes. I imagine lots of viewers had an issue with Leia, who had no previous ability to use the Force, suddenly wielding it to save her life while half unconscious in space. Then there's the scene at the very end, though, where the kid evidently uses the Force to pick up his broom. The way it's filmed gave me the impression he didn't KNOW he used it, and that maybe the ability to use the Force is more widespread than previously believed, or that maybe something's changed in the universe that impacts the ways people can use the Force. It'd be a trend to watch...
 

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DOO)))M
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Rogue One needed it because it was bridging the gap between a movie from 40 years ago (76 I believe, maybe 77?), so in that case it was really the only option. For this one, my buddy is expecting it to be in the very beginning of the crawl as they've said they don't want to CGI her in for the sake of a death, so unless they filmed another "GOTCHA" scene to trick people into thinking she died - it's really the only way to tackle the death that's doesn't seem gratuitous; a bit lackluster and disappointing given the character and her legacy, but tactful.
 

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Is Actually Recording
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pening crawl could work - you hate to have her die offscreen, but barring Rogue One/A New Hope you usually have a little bit of a gap between the ending of one movie and the start of another, so it's not like they're going to pick right back up in the Falcon, I suppose. It just really, really sucks from a writing standpoint, because the final installment was supposed to be Leia's movie, and now that can't happen. :(
 

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Just saw the movie. You’re all on crack, that movie was good :lol: The best movie ever? Obviously not. Yeah, there were a couple jokes that drew me out of it (mostly in the first half hour or so), but overall there wasn’t anything that didn’t make sense to me. Even the Leia thing wasn’t as bad as everyone said :lol:

Luke was perfect, IMHO. He’s young in the original movies. Now we see him old and weary, and we also see bits of the three people he looked up to most: Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Han.

Edit: now I’m caught up on the thread, basically what Drew said :lol:
 

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I am Groot
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That put into words most of what I thought about the movie. Until Rogue One, I have ranged from disappointed to disgusted with everything after the original trilogy. The prequels were pretty much total crap, and The Force Awakens was disappointingly formulaic, since who didn't see the last hour of the movie playing out like that? I disagree with that guy on Rogue One, since we got a look at a different corner of the galaxy, the political workings of the Empire, and a reminder of how terrible war can be.

TLJ fixed a lot of the things I disliked about TFA. I disliked Snoke immensely; he was a generic evil bad guy that came out of nowhere, so he felt like a halfass emperor. I was so happy to see him fairly casually killed off while monologueing, and the way he clumsily played Hux and Ren off of one another was one of the weaker parts of the movie. How he used the force to immobilize and move people against their will was more inventive, as if each evil Sith overlord has their own way of being a dick with their power.

I thought General Hux was just sort of there, no more special than an admiral on Vader's flagship, so to see him constantly try to counter Kylo Ren's anger and single mindedness with calm, rational thought and sound military tactics (along with a very healthy dose of ambition and arrogance) fleshed out the character into what you'd expect of a top ranking military officer in an totalitarian government. Grand Moff Tarkin was the only other character at this level that was more than a walking cardboard cutout.

I dig the shit out of Grumpy Old Luke. I love how Rey showed up with the pleading look and his old lightsaber, and he told her to get off his lawn as he casually tossed it over his shoulder. I literally laughed out loud. He constantly gets all the best lines in the movie. "This won't go the way you think." "Everything you just said is wrong." All the constant talk about the Jedi order needing to die. The regret and disappointment has crippled him for years, and just because a new recruit shows up doesn't mean he's going to pick up his laser sword and swoop to the rescue. This is what depression looks like.

Kylo Ren's evolution is what made the movie for me. This is the complicated, confused, brooding character that I wanted in the last movie. The way Rey got through to him, that he finally saw Snoke for what he was, and he completely took the wrong lesson from it. When Rey said, "Please don't do this." to him, she had to be hearing what Luke said about how things would play out. Then we got to see what two passionate but ignorant kids with a shit ton of raw power can do. Someone finally found a way to make the Star Wars teenagers not be emo. Everyone who thinks Rey was rushed through the training before fighting a bunch of powerful people forgot that Luke was rushed through training before fighting a bunch of powerful people. This is nothing new.

My only real complaint is that it was a half an hour too long. Pretty much all of the casino and hacker stuff could have been cut out. I get that we need new characters, but Rose would have been made to look even better if she and Finn combined their common knowledge to hack into the ship. Sure, some super complicated encryption makes all the geeks online complaining about how easy it is to hack into imperial systems happy, but it makes for a dumb narrative. We didn't really need some military industrial complex morality lesson, and we didn't need a scoundrel character that shows up and leaves. They could have handled the developing Poe into new senior leadership story arc without the spacewalk Leia and vice admiral junk. They were just clumsy with the the Resistance characters outside of Rey.

They kicked the shit out of the good guys in this one way harder than Empire, but they also killed off the brains of the First Order, leaving it in the hands of someone completely incapable. I think the next one will either greatly improve the standing of TLJ in the minds of many fans, or this will be viewed as the movie that derailed the story. So much changed.

People need to get over themselves about the wisecracking, too. Lucas was awful at dialogue, writing complex lines that no one would ever say. Go re-watch A New Hope and try not to cringe once. I seriously cannot make it through the scene with Luke and Kenobi meeting Han and Chewie in the cantina without groaning. Han Solo in particular was very wooden until Leia showed up to save the character; the way those two play off each other is where the movie really starts to me.
 
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I was talking about it with a friend, and this is what we came up with:

Since we know this was planned to be Luke's movie, and the next one was supposed to be Leia's movie, even without knowing that Carrie Fisher was going to pass away, I think they had that backwards. This should have been Leia's movie. Skip the whole getting flung into space scene (which I didn't mind, other than it being a shitty way to kill off Akbar), remove the character of Holdo entirely. Instead, have Leia and Po struggle face to face. He sees her as too conservative and not willing to take risks, she sees Han's recklessness in him and is working through his very recent death. Give Finn a better story arc that does a better job of him growing from trying-to-run-away guy to willing-to-fight-for-those-he-loves guy, rather than having him be distracted by flashing lights and money and an adventure and some random new girl before going "Oh yeah, Rey! Where's she?"

Speaking of Han, I kept forgetting Chewie was in this movie. He had some of the best moments at the end of TFA and his best friend was just killed, and he's apparently totally fine now. They could have shown him struggling more. It would have even made him befriending the porgs make more sense to the plot. And it could have set him up to be a total badass in the next movie.

Then, have the end of the movie play out exactly as it did, just with Leia in place of Holdo (who had a way more noble death than Akbar or even Luke, who I assume was set up to be a parallel to Obi-Wan, so we can have ghost Luke in the next movie), have Luke sense Leia's death and have that be the reason he gets involved, have the fake out of him projecting himself, but instead at the end have him stand up and walk back into the cave looking like he's about to get involved in some shit in the next movie, then credits.

As it is, I really liked the movie. I'd give it a 7/10, in that it's a really good movie that has some fatal flaws that prevent it from being great.
 

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Banned
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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
100% agree with Noodles.

Side note : I've seen it again yesterday and the "stupid" jokes were far less irritating. Much better as a whole the 2nd time.
 

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Guiterrorizer
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Just saw it tonight. Didn't feel the jokes were overdone, actually saw the character development, and a few questions were answered. Not amazing, not the best, but a pretty damn solid movie. Let's not forget that it comes out at a time when there's some sad shit in the world and the main message is "do what's right".
 

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I am Groot
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Since others have been doing it, here's my ranking:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Rouge One
4. The Return of the Jedi
5. The Last Jedi
6. The Force Awakens
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. A Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
 

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NSLALP
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All I have to do to turn yours into mine is promote TLJ to slot #3 and shift the others down. Agreed on all other fronts.

I have to say, I'm pleased that Disney isn't really screwing this up. TFA was a Disney Disaster in the making and I was worried about the direction of Episode XIII and IX.

Now I'm just petrified that they're handing the reins back over to JJ Abrams. :-(
 

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I am Groot
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All I have to do to turn yours into mine is promote TLJ to slot #3 and shift the others down. Agreed on all other fronts.

I have to say, I'm pleased that Disney isn't really screwing this up. TFA was a Disney Disaster in the making and I was worried about the direction of Episode XIII and IX.

Now I'm just petrified that they're handing the reins back over to JJ Abrams. :-(
I went back and forth on where it went for a while, and what it finally came down to is this: no set of scenes in TLJ were as brilliant as the throne room scenes in ROJ, and Rogue One had little to no filler. Really, slots 2-5 are all very close to me, and Empire is the Michael Schumacher of the franchise.

And yeah, I'm expecting IX to be as meh as VII. :(
 
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Dream Crusher
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Well, Rian gets the "next" trilogy. Wherever that leads us.
 

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I don't like it.
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Mine...

1. A New Hope
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Return of the Jedi
4. Rouge One
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Attack of the Clones
8. Phantom Menace
9.The Last Jedi
 

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I am Groot
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Mine...

1. A New Hope
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Return of the Jedi
4. Rouge One
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Attack of the Clones
8. Phantom Menace
9.The Last Jedi
I can understand someone hating The Last Jedi, since it's such a radical departure, but ranking it lower than the three prequels? You really think it was a bigger pile of garbage than those?
 

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Dream Crusher
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I can't really rank them, since I'm never going to be 8 years old again. But, I did absolutely love TLJ, although in a different way than the "makes me feel like I'm 8 again" Rogue One.
 

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Is Actually Recording
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I can understand someone hating The Last Jedi, since it's such a radical departure, but ranking it lower than the three prequels? You really think it was a bigger pile of garbage than those?
Yeah, while in general the idea of trying to rank them is hard to get my head around, I think you can still make some broad generalizations, like the first two prequels, and especially the first, were abysmal.

I remember going to see it in the theaters as an 18 year old in 1999 and being really excited to see a new Star Wars movie... And then, almost immediately having a growing sense that all was not well in the world that came to a head around the time they were taking a submarine through the planet and a bigger fish swallowed the fish that was about to swallow the submarine. It was bad.

I get not loving The Last Jedi, I guess... But I think you're repressing just how bad The Phantom Menace was. :lol:

Barring the first two, though, I don't think I could really rank one over the others. They all have their strong suits, and were all good for different reasons.
 
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