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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From some years ago I basically reduce my meat consumption to 15-20% of what I used to eat...one of the reasons was to save money, eat healthier and the growing knowledge how we are treating other beings... and this is getting probably one the main reason:

CAUTION STRONG GRAPHIC IMAGES

Nothing this caged poor animals do could ever provoke bestial actions like these...

Im ashamed as Human Being that pure SCUM as this are even allowed to have a job or even breath... I hope they really get punished as painfully as it can be life wise.

Chicken Torture
 

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While I sympathize with your issues, if you're going to decide what you choose to ingest based on the mistreatment by SOME who feed the supply chain, that's becomes a very slippery moral slope. There a lot of mistreatment of human beings who pick your fruit/vegetables. Or assemble your cell phones and computers, etc. Unless you're going to grow all your food yourself, swear off of technology and make your own clothes, you're inevitably going to be paying someone who does inhumane things to someone/something else to produce it.
 

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While I sympathize with your issues, if you're going to decide what you choose to ingest based on the mistreatment by SOME who feed the supply chain, that's becomes a very slippery moral slope. There a lot of mistreatment of human beings who pick your fruit/vegetables. Or assemble your cell phones and computers, etc. Unless you're going to grow all your food yourself, swear off of technology and make your own clothes, you're inevitably going to be paying someone who does inhumane things to someone/something else to produce it.
This. These guys are assholes, but I don't need the video shoved in my face to know some people are assholes that do shitty things. This just feels really close to the kind of shit PETA pulls: shocking images and videos to try to disgust and scare people into stopping eating meat. It does not work, and just pushes people away from you, unless those people already agree with you. It starts to feel like the "pro-life" people protesting outside the hospital or wherever, who are only doing it because they want to feel included in their church and "do their duty".
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Actually and unfortunately its not just a few but basically all Animal food chain...

Im not a Vegan and I dont really know if I ever will be a total one like friends of mine are.

Im also not an Utopist that thinks Humanity will stop eating meat or fish, it wont and it will never happen, but the way we "produce" that meat is the way that really has to change.

When someone decided that breeding Animals was the same as a In Line production at any Factory we all lost with it, sure things become cheaper and someone keeps getting richer and richer.. but at what expense? Becoming totally insensitive to the living conditions and suffering of our food when we live in a World of abundance?

We are all guilty of the exploitation that happens everyday all over being it on Animals or other People or Natural resources, we all take advantage of it... but we all also get conscience that things cannot keep up like they are now. Things can be done in a more "humane" way.

Im not advocating anyone to stop eating meat, I eat it at least once a week and I enjoy it for the majority of the time, but I also prefer to eat meat that I try to know where it came from and not meat we buy packed in any supermarket... been years since I buy eggs from chickens that are naturally raise in plain open air and not confined to some 4 walls where they cant even see the light. I also refrain from buying meat from Supermarkets where I have no clue where it came from, red meat its very very rare that I eat it mainly because I got a bit sick of it with the years.

Fish is no different, I think no one really consider the suffering Fish pass by being raised from depths to pressures they don't live in (wonder why Fish seem to have Eyes poping out when you see them at the supermarkets/markets... now you know), not to mention the stress of being trapped in Net with millions others and the suffocating.

My OP was more in indignation on how anyone can become so insensitive to do this to another being, its not about the meat or the food.. this is being plain mean and Im sorry but to me people like this dont even deserve to be alive. I see no difference between this and someone that hurts others for the sick pleasure of inflicting pain.

I really really hope these guys get arrested and brutally gang raped while in prison, but so bad that they will have to shit rest of their lifes by a tube.
 

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I really really hope these guys get arrested and brutally gang raped while in prison, but so bad that they will have to shit rest of their lifes by a tube.
I hope you can see the irony and hypocrisy here. I get it, you're mad that these guys are shitty animal abusers. I just don't think stooping to their level is the right approach here. Animals are not better than people or more deserving of life and happiness. I don't think people are better than animals, either.

As for the stuff about fish: yeah, being killed is unpleasant. It's no worse than how any other living creature is killed by predators.

I understand that it's easy to feel guilty about having to take another life to nourish yourself. If you want to be vegan, or vegetarian, or whatever, there's nothing wrong with that. If you want shitty people like this to be dealt with and for conditions in farming to improve, that's great. But putting animals above people, or getting unreasonably outraged and generalizing, or getting militant about it, all just push people away.
 

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i feel like most people would reduce their meat intake if they ever had to process the animals themselves.

I hunt and will feed myself that way when possible. What I can't get for wild protein, I prefer to purchase directly from the farmer/butcher in fresh bulk (i.e. getting a 1/2 cow, whole pig etc.). The humane aspect is certainly a part of it, but to be honest I just prefer having fresh meat and getting the cuts I want and getting massive savings through purchasing my own and having it butchered directly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Yeah Im mad and taking things over the top but in no way I said animals are above people (well some definitely are).

We as Race are at the top of the food chain, we are where we are because of it no denying that... but we simply dont need to treat our "food" like this. Would you be okay if instead of Chickens on the video was Cats or Dogs, or even a Horse?

This video is an extreme example but its also probably what happens daily in these kind of facilities, and we all know it is we simply choose to ignore it... My conscience is making me not to ignore it... maybe im just another one of those that started to get bothered with it some time ago when majority cares less, I can assure you I never though about it 10-15 years ago. I mean I know how these animals where killed and they had to be so we could eat them etc etc, but this is not about it... its the way they are perceived as things and not living creatures that feel pain like we all do...maybe im not explaining myself clear.

I have no issues in eating a stake, but knowing that probably that Animal had the most miserable life and it was basically even tortured to death (when there was nothing going for it) makes me think twice. been making me think twice for some time... maybe because I was raised by my grandparents that always had animals, mainly Chickens and some Ducks and occasionally Rabbits but never ever the Animals were abused, they basically roamed free and even the rabbits had huge places and then when the time came they where killed to eat.. in fact I never knew anyone at those times that would torture Animals that they raised to eat...
 

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I'm gonna throw buckets of blood on all of you. PETA style.

Seriously though, while I am an animal rights dude, I will tell you that shocking people isn't the way to do it, they have to come around to it themselves.

I don't think anybody here takes being lectured very well. Unless if it's a lecture about how to be Trve Kvlt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
But im not lecturing anyone... well at least that not my intention and Im sorry if it sounds like it.

To make it simple.. I posted the video as one of the examples on Why Im getting into being more Vegan than ever... not because I dont like meat or fish or even seafood which I love... but its this treatment and this torture that happens that makes me not want to keep up contributing for.

Hope Im more clear now :)
 

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While I understand your anger at the video, I suggest becoming a volunteer at a place that feeds the poor/homeless would go a lot farther and be more rewarding than a dietary change.
 

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Yeah Im mad and taking things over the top but in no way I said animals are above people (well some definitely are).

We as Race are at the top of the food chain, we are where we are because of it no denying that... but we simply dont need to treat our "food" like this. Would you be okay if instead of Chickens on the video was Cats or Dogs, or even a Horse?
i don't recall anyone saying they were ok with it in the first place. this post reeks of reactionary feelings.

any time this type of shit is brought to the publics attention someone goes to jail because EVERYONE FEELS THE SAME WAY ABOUT HORRIBLE ANIMAL ABUSE. it shouldn't happen. i try to get my meat from local farms that allow open grazing etc etc. but i also buy a giant discount box of frozen chicken breasts because i care about me more than i do animals being able to walk around. choose a thing, do the best you can with it.

don't like sweatshops, try to buy expensive clothing locally, you're never going to find linen that wasn't made by some poor bastard in a 3rd world country for nothing a day but you can try to do the best you can. same with meat, buy local, go to the farm, inspect the place.

don't however, post shock videos trying to guilt people into your way of thinking.
 

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One, be aware that this is on the extreme end, by a LONG shot, of what happens in the meat industry. This is not the norm.

Two, also pause to agknowledge that the fruit and vegetable farming industry is filled with rampant abuses too and relies heavily on what's practically slave labor. I'm not going to try to argue that human lives are move valuable than animal lives, but I will note that there IS a human cost, and at a bare minimum we have to recognize the equivalency of inhumane treatment of animals and inhumane treatment of humans.

Three, I'll briefly pause and agknowledge the many environmental arguments for a predominately vegetarian diet, not the least being that calorie for calorie meat is something like 20x more intensive to raise in calorie input and like 50x more intensive to raise in terms of water input than most vegetarian diet equivalents.

But, more to the point...

There's a LOT you can do, short of going vegan, to minimize your impact. Beard alluded to this, but there's a growing sustainable/humane/locally sourced food movement in the States, and I assume in portugal as well. A number of grocery stores, from local and national chains down to independent butchers, carry locally sourced, organic, "free range" meats where the animals are not treated like this; you'll pay a bit more for it, true, but you can arguably far more directly "vote with your wallet" by supporting guys doing it right than by abstaining all together. And, certainly limiting meat consumption somewhat doesn't hurt - it's probably healthier, it's more environmentally sustainable, and it's cheaper, and I always appreciated my dad went vegetarian for a long time while I was growing up (health, not moral, reasons) because it got me over the American mindset that dinner was a hunk of meat with something on the side, and vegetarian food relies far more heavily on intelligent seasoning than a medium rare steak so a lot of the cooking lessons you learn can then be applied to non-vegetarian food with great success. Long story short, you have a range of options.

But, something like this is a propaganda piece, plain and simple. At least pause and acknowledge it as such.

EDIT - also, there's a word of difference between vegetarian and vegan, and I can only think of one vegan I know who isn't a self-righteous prick about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
While I understand your anger at the video, I suggest becoming a volunteer at a place that feeds the poor/homeless would go a lot farther and be more rewarding than a dietary change.
I did it for some time (4-6 months at night) before moving and when i was unemployed, we used to be in a Van stopping in specific places and give soup and usually sandwiches and fruit to homeless people.

Anyway... I got carried way with the sheer brutality on that video was had a total emotional reaction to it and I say again I was not trying to "convert" anyone to something that Im even not... delete this thread if doesn't suit the forum rules.
 

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While I sympathize with your issues, if you're going to decide what you choose to ingest based on the mistreatment by SOME who feed the supply chain, that's becomes a very slippery moral slope. There a lot of mistreatment of human beings who pick your fruit/vegetables. Or assemble your cell phones and computers, etc. Unless you're going to grow all your food yourself, swear off of technology and make your own clothes, you're inevitably going to be paying someone who does inhumane things to someone/something else to produce it.
+1

I don't want to swear off eating chicken. I want to make shit like what happened in that video stop.
 

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As for the stuff about fish: yeah, being killed is unpleasant. It's no worse than how any other living creature is killed by predators.
This, too, and it is often the argument I use. A lion pride is going to run down a buffalo, harassing it over the course of half an hour or more, until it physically cannot run anymore. It will then suffer as lions jump on it's back, tearing at it's flesh, bringing it to the ground. I guess that beats a pack of hyenas, though, since at least the male lion will choke the animal out before they start eating it.
 

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While I think animals should be treated well and have personally reduced my consumption of meat by about half (mostly because of environmental reasons), I don't really see how growing and killing plants for food, building material etc. is actually any more ethical than killing an animal. Does a central nervous system, which is just a survival mechanism (= this hurts - I should avoid it), make something more worthy to live? Plants have systems that have a similar function (i.e. the plant "senses" that it's being attacked and for example starts excreting bad tasting/poisonous substances) and can also in many cases signal to nearby plants that it's being eaten. So the plants "want" to survive and put lots of effort into avoiding being eaten, just like an animal that runs and fights for its life.

Edit: All the citation marks are because I don't literally say that a plant can want to do anything, or sense in the way we do.
 

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I've been moving to a vegan diet over the last couple months for numerous reasons, but the last one is my health.

I'm an animal lover and I can't see it logically in my head to say "I love animals but I eat them". Really, after my pups passed away a couple months ago, I just can't contribute or participate in the whole meat/dairy thing. Obviously my dog wasn't butchered for eating, but knowing the confusion and pain this innocent life went through in his last hours....it's beats me up knowing what's going on. I do love animals much more than human beings.

And to say that these videos have never changed someone's mind about eating meat, that's definitely false. I personally know 4 people who have chosen to go vegan after seeing exactly stuff like this, which was the catalyst for an entire diet change......and I barely speak to people outside my little bubble. My girlfriend's entire immediate family also switched to a vegan diet after watching a couple documentaries on Netflix.

And sure, there are plenty of vegan douchebags, but one thing I've noticed is that the second a vegan even mentions their diet, there's almost ALWAYS someone who will say something IMMEDIATELY about how they love eating cows or how animals are "great....to eat" then go off on how bloody they like their steaks and etc. So when someone who has chosen their diet for ethical reasons is faced with that, what do you expect, ya know?

I haven't eaten beef or pork in over a month.....and I used to eat steaks probably 3x a week and bacon almost daily. I've been eating chicken still and that's only because I haven't been in a situation where I can really store/prepare my own food and when I get out of work, there's nowhere to go and pick up a decent sized salad or vegan anything aside from some fries at BK. That's changing in a couple weeks, so I assume by then, chicken will be out of my diet as well.

I'm a spiritual kinda guy and one thing Devin Townsend said a few years back that really resonated with me regarding eating meat is that you're taking the energy from this animal that lived in shit conditions and basically spent whatever "life" it had being miserable, then most likely had it's life ended in some kind of horrific way and then you take that meat and put it into your body for energy. I know that won't hit people the same way it hit me, but it hit me pretty hard.

My girlfriend and I have a long-term goal to open an animal sanctuary, once we have enough land to do it on. We just bought a house this week and she was bummed we weren't going to have space for goats. :rofl:
 
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