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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So last night me and my other guitar player were sitting down trying to dial in tones. For shits and giggles, I asked him to crank his 5150 to see just how loud it could go... Holy fuck, was it insane. My lil RoV simply couldn't hold a candle to it. Once I go past 12:30-1:00 on the Output I run into PT saturation and lose all low end and punch. But his 5150 kept getting louder and punchier...

So, in 5 weeks we're playing a show, and I'm sad to say that my RoV can't keep up. About a month ago or so I took it to the shop to have it checked out, but the only problem was a bunk PI tube. So my amp appears to be operatiing normal, but honestly sounds very weak at high volumes. That said, I got to thinking...

We're both running into identical Marshall cabs. They're the little ones, I think from the valvestate line. Would the dampening factor on a Mesa explain why I have such a weak tone?! I dosn't make sense to me that his 5150 sounds fucking brutal through a mediocre cab. I'd love to get an oversized Recto 4x12, but I'm strapped for cash. I maybe have $300 in disposible income ATM.

To summize, here's what I'm thinking:

A. trade/sell for a 5150 (probably have some cash left over)
B. trade/sell for a Dual Recto (I can get one for a reasonable price...)
C. somehow get my hands on a Recto 4x12
D. any ideas?!?

At the end of the day, it appears that 50watts just isn't enough to play metal/hardcore. Please give me some insight guys, I'm stressed the fuck out. :confused:
 

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Guiterrorizer
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15,696 Posts
how old are your power tubes?

and power tube saturation makes things bigger and thicker, not the opposite lol.

EQ also counts for more the louder you push your amp. I highly doubt that you both run your amps full tilt at shows/practises ;)
 

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I am Groot
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32,450 Posts
At the end of the day, it appears that 50watts just isn't enough to play metal/hardcore. Please give me some insight guys, I'm stressed the fuck out. :confused:
This could not be further from the truth, since a 100w amp is only about 12% louder. I think you're freaking out that his 5150 has more headroom than you, and you should just remind yourself that you don't play with your amp dimed. Hell, you're going to swallow the drums before you get it halfway up.

Those cabs are horrid, not mediocre, and they are doing you no good. That is what I'd be looking to replace. If you're on a budget, grab an Avatar 4x12, or an old Peavey cab (Mike can tell you which one to buy).
 

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I am Groot
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how old are your power tubes?
Good point. How long have you been running on them? Old tubes are a tone killer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
how old are your power tubes?

and power tube saturation makes things bigger and thicker, not the opposite lol.

EQ also counts for more the louder you push your amp. I highly doubt that you both run your amps full tilt at shows/practises ;)
The guy I bought it from assured me the PT's were just replaced (this was back in November '08). But ppl will say anything to make a sale I suppose. But for $50 I guess I should get a new set of 6L6's to rule out that possibility. :yesway:

Here's my EQ settings as of last night:

CH2 Modern
Gain: 2:00
Treble: 11:00
Mids: 12:00
Bass: 10:00
Presence: 10:00
Master: 9:00
Output: 12:00-1:00 (past that point I get no more volume, only saturation)

This could not be further from the truth, since a 100w amp is only about 12% louder. I think you're freaking out that his 5150 has more headroom than you, and you should just remind yourself that you don't play with your amp dimed. Hell, you're going to swallow the drums before you get it halfway up.

Those cabs are horrid, not mediocre, and they are doing you no good. That is what I'd be looking to replace. If you're on a budget, grab an Avatar 4x12, or an old Peavey cab (Mike can tell you which one to buy).
The thing is I have to crank my RoV just to keep up with the band. My other guitarist usually keeps the Post Gain on his 5150 at 4 (10:00) to be on even keel with our drummer, bassist and screamer/vocalist. With my settings above, I'm barely heard. Anymore volume from my amp and it sounds loose and weak.

I agree those cabs are shit, but what fucks me up is his 5150 through the same cab sounds like a beast.

Thanks guys for the advice so far. :metal: Having outside opinions helps me from completely bugging out...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Turn up your channel master. That's your "output" into the power section, and it's barely on.
Hm... once I go past say 10:00 the tone gets ugly, like the PI tube is clipping. In vintage mode I can put the channel master up to about 11:00, but again, anything past that point is ugliness.
 

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I am Groot
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Hm... once I go past say 10:00 the tone gets ugly, like the PI tube is clipping. In vintage mode I can put the channel master up to about 11:00, but again, anything past that point is ugliness.
That because your gain is too high. Back it off a touch. Here, try this:

Gain: 12:30
Treble: 1:00
Mids: 11:00
Bass: 10:00
Presence: 12:00
Master: 11:00

You don't have a 3ch, so don't be afraid of your presence knob. In the Recto world, treble adds gain, so while you don't want to go to high with it, you need to get it past 12 to get that saturation with clarity that you seem to be looking for.

What are you using out front for a boost?
 

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Is Actually Recording
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Yeah, what Dave said. as the Channel Master goes up, the amount of preamp gain you need goes SERIOUSLY down. Cranked, I'd be surprised if you needed much more than 10 o'clock on the Pre, maybe even lower.

Next question - aren't Marshall cabs normally 16 ohms?
 

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Slow Money
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as a guy who had the same issues as you with a rectoverb, listen to dave and drew, as those fixed my issues and gave me exactly what i was looking for, which it seems you are too :lol:
 

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Dream Crusher
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21,053 Posts
Remember, with almost any amp, as master volume increases, gain should decrease to continue to keep a clear, defined sound. On some amps this is a linear function, on others it may take a nudge here or there... but the principle holds.

It may feel weird to turn down the gain in a metal setting, but it's necessary to keep the sound defined and tight rather than a fuzzy, noisy mess.

I do not own a Recto or other Mesa, but in going from "home practice" to "practice with drummer" to "gigging" levels with my amp, my Drive control goes from 1 o'clock to 12 o'clock to 9-10 o'clock with no loss of perceived sustain or clarity. This drop is to keep it from becoming too 'fuzzy' and undefined.
 

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Reverend Secret Flower
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11,836 Posts
my rectoverb head is unbelievably loud, it beats out 100 watters all the time. of course my cab is a 4x12 with swampthangs and a capacity of 600 watts, so i'm sure the cab helps me be super loud
 

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Banned
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So last night me and my other guitar player were sitting down trying to dial in tones. For shits and giggles, I asked him to crank his 5150 to see just how loud it could go... Holy fuck, was it insane. My lil RoV simply couldn't hold a candle to it. Once I go past 12:30-1:00 on the Output I run into PT saturation and lose all low end and punch. But his 5150 kept getting louder and punchier...

So, in 5 weeks we're playing a show, and I'm sad to say that my RoV can't keep up. About a month ago or so I took it to the shop to have it checked out, but the only problem was a bunk PI tube. So my amp appears to be operatiing normal, but honestly sounds very weak at high volumes. That said, I got to thinking...

We're both running into identical Marshall cabs. They're the little ones, I think from the valvestate line. Would the dampening factor on a Mesa explain why I have such a weak tone?! I dosn't make sense to me that his 5150 sounds fucking brutal through a mediocre cab. I'd love to get an oversized Recto 4x12, but I'm strapped for cash. I maybe have $300 in disposible income ATM.

To summize, here's what I'm thinking:

A. trade/sell for a 5150 (probably have some cash left over)
B. trade/sell for a Dual Recto (I can get one for a reasonable price...)
C. somehow get my hands on a Recto 4x12
D. any ideas?!?

At the end of the day, it appears that 50watts just isn't enough to play metal/hardcore. Please give me some insight guys, I'm stressed the fuck out. :confused:
I have a hard time believing you need more than 50w tube to play metal. Do you guys not mic the cabs?
 

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Both my S160 (160W Solid State) and my rack (130Wx2, also SS) are plenty loud enough to drown out drums. 50W of tube should be more than enough, as Drew's Nomad was able to completely drown out my fullstack at max volume.
 

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Banned
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Both my S160 (160W Solid State) and my rack (130Wx2, also SS) are plenty loud enough to drown out drums. 50W of tube should be more than enough, as Drew's Nomad was able to completely drown out my fullstack at max volume.
In my experience even a 15w tube amp with a 2x12 can hang with a rock drummer, provided he's not a gorilla.

Especially so mic'd.
 

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Guiterrorizer
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Replace the power tubes, keep the old ones as spares. Listen to Dave.

and I keep my gain filthy low, its great :D
 

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Slow Money
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a rectoverb can hang with a gorilla drummer anyday. its more like how many drummers do you need to keep up with a rectoverb. seriously
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Just got home from work...

My first agenda from the suggestions so far is to rule out the powertube's and get a new set. Sounds simple enough, but money is fucking tight - the cost of new powertubes will potentially eat into my budget for a new amp or cabinet... but at this rate, it seems logical to rule that variable out. Our next practice is Monday, so I'll get some new 6L6's and give it a shot.

The cabinet issue is a major cause for concern, but again, my buddy's 5150 sounds beefy and loud as all fuck thru the same cab. Shitty cab or not, something HAS to be amiss with my RoV. Or at least I'm hoping.

When it comes to EQ/Gain tweaking, I've spent a lot of time at practice fucking around trying to get things to sound good. I'm no noob when it comes to Mesa's, but I admit the Recto I've only had about 6 months. To that end, if the PT change doesn't cure my woes, I'll have to concede pilot error. But I'll cross the bridge when the time comes.

Thanks a lot so far guys. This show means a lot to our band and the folks coming out to see it; I just want to sound as good as possible.
 
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